Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:55 pm

Quote from: schiffko on Nov 29, 2015, 08:17AMwhat is a 7GLW TB TII bell?
bach taper
goldbrass
lightweight
TB???

The way the designation should read is: TII 7GLW TB

TII: Larger throat taper (similar to a Bach, definitely not the same)
7: Two piece bell that is modified to bridge the gap between traditional one and two piece bells
G: Gold Brass
LW: Lightweight
TB: Bouncier, rounder articulations than are standard.

Be sure it's TB and not T8, which is a thinning near the edge of the bell that gives a quicker response and slightly larger feel.

I hope that helps.
Ben

ttf_schiffko · Post by **ttf_schiffko** » Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:43 pm

hi ben

this helps a lot
thank you

here is the link
http://www.thebrass-exchange.com/catalog/shires-bell-section-7glw-tii-used

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:13 am

Quote from: schiffko on Nov 29, 2015, 11:43PMhi ben

this helps a lot
thank you

here is the link
http://www.thebrass-exchange.com/catalog/shires-bell-section-7glw-tii-used

The pictures tell a thousand words! This must be an early production model, judging by the stamp. An interesting bell for sure!

ttf_schiffko · Post by **ttf_schiffko** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:08 am

yup.....i want it....

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:51 pm

Ben,

I might be interested in trying to replace my 79h with something a bit more refined. Probably a medium bore horn for chamber situations and small orchestra. I usually go for rose bells, but that's not a prerequisite. Probably 8" bell. Totally open on valve. In general I don't need anything to make articulations sound harsher.

I can't get to Boston right now, but I will eventually.

Do you have any comments about Shires medium bore instruments in general? I haven't been a big fan, but I haven't seen or heard of a lot of 525s.

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:53 pm

Quote from: hyperbolica on Dec 08, 2015, 12:51PMBen,

I might be interested in trying to replace my 79h with something a bit more refined. Probably a medium bore horn for chamber situations and small orchestra. I usually go for rose bells, but that's not a prerequisite. Probably 8" bell. Totally open on valve. In general I don't need anything to make articulations sound harsher.

I can't get to Boston right now, but I will eventually.

Do you have any comments about Shires medium bore instruments in general? I haven't been a big fan, but I haven't seen or heard of a lot of 525s.

My Medium Bore Shires has been my workhorse horn for the last three or four months as I've been cycling through different musical contracts. In general, I think the Shires Medium bore is one of the most versatile instruments on the market but doesn't get as much recognition for the same reasons as a lot of people don;t talk about their medium bore horns: they're very flexible but not a super strong flavor suited to only one more specialized kind of playing that most people study i.e. classical (orchestral) or jazz.

Set-up depends on the kind of musical situation you think you'll find yourself in. Out T25NLW (narrow .525 slide in nickel lightweight)slide has been a perennial favorite among commercial musicians, generally paired with either a 2RVE 8, 1YM 8, or 7YLW 8 bell. The 2RVE is the most flexible in terms of timbre, with a warm sound that brightens up progressively. The 1YM 8 bell is more of a jazz/commercial style bell with very present articulations and clarity paired with projection. The 7YLW is more of a Goldilocks bell, blending easily with instruments around while still have a slightly brighter character.

The nickel lightweight slide is quick and has very clear, clean articulations. Moving to a yellow brass slide in standard weight will add warmth and heft to the sound, essentially making it a little big horn (and an excellent brother to the Shires Custom large tenor). A wide slide gives a broader feel and wider sound while sacrificing some of the density of sound. One of the great things about Shires medium bore is that they can use either large or small shank mouthpieces, giving you added flexibility. I find the large shank receiver makes it even more of a little big horn, giving plenty of pop while retaining a wider, bigger feel.

Valves are a matter of personal taste. In general, the Dual Bore valve has been the most popular, fitting easily with the denser, more nimble character of the horn. A standard rotor broadens the feel and widens the sound. People have used Tru-Bore with the narrow slide and the sound is larger and has terrific heft and projection. Some have tried axial flow valves, but I generally find the sound at odds with the role of a medium bore. That is unless it's paired with a wide slide and 8.5" bell, at which point it makes a terrific little big horn, well suited for pops or principal playing.

I hope this helps!

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:16 pm

Tbone quartet, pit band, church groups. Is there such a thing as 2GVE? I like the idea of the "vintage Elkhart", maybe a little brighter. Sounds like the yellow slide would be a good fit . Geometrically I like the wide slide, but don't want to sacrifice dense tone. Duo bore valve sounds good. Sounds like a good starting point for a visit to the north east. Thanks for the suggestions!

ttf_sabutin · Post by **ttf_sabutin** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:55 am

Ben pins it.

I have a .525 w/an 8" 2RVE bell, a regular weight brass slide and a TruBore. It is definitely a "little big horn," not an everything one and as a result it isn't the ideal blending horn on lower parts in bright trombone sections. I am sure that altering it as Ben suggests would make it more of an everything horn, but it's my true voice so I don't mess with it except sometimes when I put an 8.5" 2RVE bell on it for an even "bigger"...actually slightly more dispersed and darker...sound.

Chocolate for the ears.

As he says, those other bells do just that and so do the slides he mentions. I've never much messed w/other triggers than the TrueBore nor have I played large receiver leadpipes on it. I have a .547 setup with a lighter weight slide and the 8.5" bell that I mentioned above if I want a large shank kind of blow.

I love the 7 bells for all around work although they don't seem to get as loud as I might like in extreme situations. I have a 1YM bell that'll curl your toes for that sort of thing, but it mellows out nicely at lower volumes.

Dassit...that's all I know on this.

If I was going to put together an all around Shires .525 without testing it, I'd get an 8" 1YM bell, whatever trigger Ben is using and a regular weight slide w/small shank leadpipes. That'd cover w whole lot of situations very nicely.

Later...

S.

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:28 am

Thanks for that, coming from someone who plays it, it's helpful. I'm not necessarily looking for a little big horn, but more of an everything bagel. I've already got a nice 88h w/ 547 and 525, but haven't played 547 for a year now. I don't really play in situations where I need a ton of volume, in fact, I'm usually looking to dial things back. I'm sure I'll get up north to test some combos out. I think I'm done with trying to find and mod vintage horns to taste.

Thanks again.

ttf_sabutin · Post by **ttf_sabutin** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:35 am

Quote from: hyperbolica on Dec 09, 2015, 06:28AMThanks for that, coming from someone who plays it, it's helpful. I'm not necessarily looking for a little big horn, but more of an everything bagel. I've already got a nice 88h w/ 547 and 525, but haven't played 547 for a year now. I don't really play in situations where I need a ton of volume, in fact, I'm usually looking to dial things back. I'm sure I'll get up north to test some combos out. I think I'm done with trying to find and mod vintage horns to taste.

Thanks again.

When you make your plans, make sure Ben is going to be there. He is very, very good at leading people through the near-infinity of Shires modular choices. I'm sure here are others here who can help, but he plays everything imaginable in very high-level, real-life circumstances.

S.

S.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:32 pm

Ben touched on this with mentioning 525 pipes can have small or large shank receivers, and how much of a difference they can make. I found that to absolutely be true 200%. If you do end up ordering one, I highly recommend getting one of each out of the 3 pipes you can choose from. I'd probably get 2 large shank pipes and one small shank pipe. There seem to be a lot more used small shank pipes around, if you want to keep experimenting. But I don't know if I've seen more than 2 large shank ones come up since I've been paying attention to equipment.

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:27 pm

I have a large shank pipe with my sl2525 that i got with my 8ht. I haven't found a large shank/525 combo that I couldn't live without. My intention for this would be more of a small shank horn. The 88h/8ht with 547 and 525 slides covers my need for a bigger gun.

ttf_Dantheman · Post by **ttf_Dantheman** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:29 pm

I have a brand new Shires .500 bore and I'm absolutely in love with it.

There are a couple of rather disappointing problems though.

1) When I put my 2.5 lead pipe in, the inner slide legs splay out. ie. the slide goes out of alignment. Really this should not happen.

2) Also it arrived with two #2 pipes. Shouldn't it have 3 different pipes?

3) Lastly and I don't really care about this too much, but the lacquer is quite badly worn already on the gooseneck and hand grip. This is after only 3 weeks of playing. Is this normal?

Unfortunately I live in South Africa so shipping this horn back is not an option for me at this stage and the warranty is therefore pretty useless to me.

Do you have any suggestions as to what I should do?

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:40 pm

Assuming one might use a .525 with an 8" bell for 1st trombone in orchestra, is there a bell flare that you would recommend?

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:50 am

Quote from: Dantheman on Dec 13, 2015, 09:29PMI have a brand new Shires .500 bore and I'm absolutely in love with it.

There are a couple of rather disappointing problems though.

1) When I put my 2.5 lead pipe in, the inner slide legs splay out. ie. the slide goes out of alignment. Really this should not happen.

2) Also it arrived with two #2 pipes. Shouldn't it have 3 different pipes?

3) Lastly and I don't really care about this too much, but the lacquer is quite badly worn already on the gooseneck and hand grip. This is after only 3 weeks of playing. Is this normal?

Unfortunately I live in South Africa so shipping this horn back is not an option for me at this stage and the warranty is therefore pretty useless to me.

Do you have any suggestions as to what I should do?

Hi Dan,

I'm sorry to hear that you are having troubles with the horn, I will do my best to address all of your concerns.

1.) You're right, this shouldn't happen! This is occurring because the leadpipe is bent and is affecting the slide tube. A new leadpipe is the solution.

2.) It depend on where/who you bought the instrument from. Generally, we allow customers to specify which leadpipes they want in custom model horns.

3.) We shoot a much thinner lacquer of lacquer than most other manufacturers. It's part of what helps the instrument respond in the way that it does. This also means that it wears quicker in certain environments than other manufacturers.

For the first two issues, I would get in touch with whoever sold you the horn and bring the issues to their attention. You say you bought it new, so I assume it was a dealer, they are your best bet for getting these things remedied quickly.

For the lacquer, all I can recommend is to keep the horn clean! A regular cleaning with mild dish soap and warm (not hot) water will do wonders. We also use glass cleaner and Bounty-brand paper towels (Bounty doesn't scratch the finish).

I hope this helps and that you are enjoying the instrument otherwise!

Sincerely,
Ben

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:59 am

Quote from: Ellrod on Dec 13, 2015, 09:40PMAssuming one might use a .525 with an 8" bell for 1st trombone in orchestra, is there a bell flare that you would recommend?

It depends entirely on the player and what they are trying to accomplish, as well as how they are trying to balance the rest of their set-up.

In general, the 2RVE 8 bell has been popular because it does so many of the things people want a smaller bell for in that environment: a strong but extremely colorful sound that also is lighter, blends well and is very flexible. The 2RVE 8 bell is even more stable than the standard 8.5" 2RVE bell, in my opinion, which makes ti less scary when pushing dynamics in that environment. Ken Thompkins, in particular, is using one and has told me how much he likes it for certain things.

We also make a 7YLW 8 that has garnered a lot of interest, especially from European players. I find it to be a great little brother to the standard 7YLW, which is our most popular bell.

I hope that helps.

Ben

ttf_jmdhuse · Post by **ttf_jmdhuse** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:21 am

Hi -

I've bent my spit valve lever... went to drain the spit and my finger slipped off the lever and it snapped shut very hard... this has happened a few times and now the cork is no longer centered over the drain hole and there is a slight air leak. Can I bend the lower part of the arm back into shape, or can I just order a replacement spit valve lever from Shires and replace it myself?

Thanks, Jon,

ttf_sabutin · Post by **ttf_sabutin** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:59 am

Quote from: Dantheman on Dec 13, 2015, 09:29PMI have a brand new Shires .500 bore and I'm absolutely in love with it.

There are a couple of rather disappointing problems though.

1) When I put my 2.5 lead pipe in, the inner slide legs splay out. ie. the slide goes out of alignment. Really this should not happen.

2) Also it arrived with two #2 pipes. Shouldn't it have 3 different pipes?

3) Lastly and I don't really care about this too much, but the lacquer is quite badly worn already on the gooseneck and hand grip. This is after only 3 weeks of playing. Is this normal?

Unfortunately I live in South Africa so shipping this horn back is not an option for me at this stage and the warranty is therefore pretty useless to me.

Do you have any suggestions as to what I should do?

Dan...

Ben's answers are spot on.

As far as the lacquer is concerned...take it off!!! The horns play better w/out it as far as I am concerned. Even the light lacquering that Shires uses is too much for most bells. Let the metal ring!!! Polish it once in a while. Easy.

While I'm at it...try taking the balance weight off. It may feel a little front-heavy for a while but on most horns it frees up the resonance qualities a great deal, especially at volume. Use it for 3 weeks and you'll likely find a way to balance the horn w/out the weight.

Later...

S.

ttf_trmbtrmb · Post by **ttf_trmbtrmb** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:00 am

Shires uses a very thin layer of lacquer. I also have a less than a year old horn that has lots of lacquer worn of the hand grip already.I think Steve was always big un using a very thin layer for sonic reasons. Its a normal thing on shires. A lot of the best french horn makers don't use lacquer at all as a standard. I would not worry about it.

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:36 am

Quote from: jmdhuse on Dec 14, 2015, 08:21AMHi -

I've bent my spit valve lever... went to drain the spit and my finger slipped off the lever and it snapped shut very hard... this has happened a few times and now the cork is no longer centered over the drain hole and there is a slight air leak. Can I bend the lower part of the arm back into shape, or can I just order a replacement spit valve lever from Shires and replace it myself?

Thanks, Jon,

Hi Jon,

This should be able to be bent back very easily, but if the you see the brass start to craze contact me, [url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url], and we'll work on getting you a replacement.

ttf_BillO · Post by **ttf_BillO** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:38 am

Quote from: griffinben on Dec 14, 2015, 06:50AM3.) We shoot a much thinner lacquer of lacquer than most other manufacturers.

Hmmm, would it not make a certain amount of sense to put 2 or 3 extra coats on the areas where peoples hands come in contact while playing? This would not affect the sound adversely, would cost very little and would allow horns in the wild to look better longer. That could not be bad for sales.

A couple more questions:

1) Why have you taken your prices down on the website (sorry if this has already been asked)? (BTW, the FAQ section still says the prices are there. You might want to update that)

2) If I went to your factory location to buy a standard model tenor and wanted to swap the slide with another off-the-shelf slide, would you take back the case, mpc and charge me more?

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 4:43 pm

Quote from: BillO on Dec 24, 2015, 10:38AMHmmm, would it not make a certain amount of sense to put 2 or 3 extra coats on the areas where peoples hands come in contact while playing? This would not affect the sound adversely, would cost very little and would allow horns in the wild to look better longer. That could not be bad for sales.

A couple more questions:

1) Why have you taken your prices down on the website (sorry if this has already been asked)? (BTW, the FAQ section still says the prices are there. You might want to update that)

2) If I went to your factory location to buy a standard model tenor and wanted to swap the slide with another off-the-shelf slide, would you take back the case, mpc and charge me more?

The short answer to your first question is that yes, it does make a difference. In general, the questions we get about contact points are not the ones people are concerned with too much. Our customers tend to be understanding about the reasons for the thin lacquer. Even as recently as two months ago we did further experiments regarding lacquer and found (yet again) that thicker lacquer negatively impacts the performance of the instrument. I've found that most people buying our instruments care about the performance first and foremost. Decisions like this (and continual development and experimentation) are why we remain at the forefront of trombone performance.

For your other questions:

1.) This is for two main reasons. The first is that we do reserve the right to change our prices at any tie and this allows us some flexibility. The second is that our dealer network has grown and expanded, particularly overseas. Because of fluctuating exchange rates, taxes and duties, their prices are not the same as we list on the website. Taking the prices down has made things easier for our dealers, our customers, and us!

2.) A standard model comes with the components listed for that model. Anything different makes it custom, which does not come with a case or mouthpiece. Most components on a custom trombones cost no more than the same component on a "standard" model. (Tru-Bore valves are more expensive than rotors or axials, seamed tuning slides and sterling pipes are more expensive than their counterparts).

Is there a particular instrument or component/s you are interested in that I can answer questions about? I'd be happy to help here or via email ([url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url]).

I hope this helps,
Ben

ttf_The Last Trombone · Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:47 pm

To what extent are the Shires Pro Selects compatible with the other Shires line, in terms of attachment with other valves, bells, slides, etc. For example, could one take a Shires pro select bass trombone, later add an axial valve setup, with them being compatible with the bell mounts, slide, main tuning slide, etc.

Also, will the tuning slides on a shires pro select bass' F and Gb valve be compatible with every other valve that is Shires compatible?

Thanks

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:36 am

Quote from: The Last Trombone on Dec 30, 2015, 09:47PMTo what extent are the Shires Pro Selects compatible with the other Shires line, in terms of attachment with other valves, bells, slides, etc. For example, could one take a Shires pro select bass trombone, later add an axial valve setup, with them being compatible with the bell mounts, slide, main tuning slide, etc.

Also, will the tuning slides on a shires pro select bass' F and Gb valve be compatible with every other valve that is Shires compatible?

Thanks

While the Pro Select models contained components that were in every way the same quality as our custom models, they were/are not compatible with custom components. If you wanted to add a custom component, the receiver hardware (locknuts and receivers) would need to be changed on the Pro Select. In the scenario you presented, you would need a new bell mounting hardware kit ($125) and a new bell receiver (slide portion, $25) to make your horn compatible with a new valve section. You would need a tech or send your instrument to the factory for installation of these parts.

I hope this helps.

Ben

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:57 pm

Who is going to be manning the booth at ATW this year, and what kind of selection will you have? I might be interested in putting together a .525 horn this year.

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:00 am

Quote from: hyperbolica on Jan 05, 2016, 01:57PMWho is going to be manning the booth at ATW this year, and what kind of selection will you have? I might be interested in putting together a .525 horn this year.

I should be at ATW this year. Please contact me at [url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url] and we can chat specifics of what you'd like to try out.

ttf_The Last Trombone · Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:21 am

How about the leadpipes? Are they compatible with standard Shires or Shires-threaded pipes?

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:51 am

Quote from: The Last Trombone on Jan 06, 2016, 06:21AMHow about the leadpipes? Are they compatible with standard Shires or Shires-threaded pipes?

The leadpipes should be compatible.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:10 am

Hi,

Just curious is there a single bore setup for the alto? How does that compare to the dual bore which seems much more popular?

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:28 pm

Quote from: victorruan360 on Jan 11, 2016, 09:10AMHi,

Just curious is there a single bore setup for the alto? How does that compare to the dual bore which seems much more popular?

A single bore is possible, we have made a few A85 slides (.485 single bore). The dual bore has a bit more stability and, in general, sounds a little more brilliant than the single bore. Yes, I was surprised too. Most people seem to be more comfortable on the dual bore slide, though there are some notable exceptions (Colin Williams plays an A85 slide on his alto).

I hope that helps.
Ben

ttf_Duffle · Post by **ttf_Duffle** » Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:01 am

Ben, what kind of lacquer is used on Shires instruments? What is the best way to remove it either at DIY at home or professionally by a tech? Thanks

ttf_victorruan360 · Post by **ttf_victorruan360** » Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:26 am

Quote from: griffinben on Jan 11, 2016, 12:28PMA single bore is possible, we have made a few A85 slides (.485 single bore). The dual bore has a bit more stability and, in general, sounds a little more brilliant than the single bore. Yes, I was surprised too. Most people seem to be more comfortable on the dual bore slide, though there are some notable exceptions (Colin Williams plays an A85 slide on his alto).

I hope that helps.
Ben

Thanks very much Ben. Another alto question. Is a red bell and a yellow brass slide on alto a viable choice for a Conn-ish setup for chamber or small orchestra? I assume gold brass slide would be softening the articulation too much. For valve, I assume if I can reach the seventh position securely then the valve does not matter that much. I personally plays a Yamaha 882G as tenor, which is "sort of" Yamaha's take on Conn and I like the warmth and color of the instrument so want something similar on the Alto. But not a die-hard fan on Elkhart Conn though. In fact not fortunate to have played an Elkhart Conn till now.

ttf_Duffle · Post by **ttf_Duffle** » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:27 am

I've seen an all nickel tuning slide on a large-bore. Is this a custom order item or a standard part? If it's custom is there an up charge?...

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:25 am

Quote from: victorruan360 on Jan 14, 2016, 07:26AMThanks very much Ben. Another alto question. Is a red bell and a yellow brass slide on alto a viable choice for a Conn-ish setup for chamber or small orchestra? I assume gold brass slide would be softening the articulation too much. For valve, I assume if I can reach the seventh position securely then the valve does not matter that much. I personally plays a Yamaha 882G as tenor, which is "sort of" Yamaha's take on Conn and I like the warmth and color of the instrument so want something similar on the Alto. But not a die-hard fan on Elkhart Conn though. In fact not fortunate to have played an Elkhart Conn till now.

The answer is: it all depends.

An A2RVE bell paired with a single bore yellow slide would be somewhat like an old Conn 35H. Most people that opt for a gold brass bell also opt for a nickel silver slide, which has super crisp articulations but looses some of the warmth (or what I interpret most people to mean when they say warmth). I think a yellow slide paired to a type 1 bell, say and A1GMT8, would give you something close to what you are looking for.

Our TIS enables us to use a longer slide and have a full 7 positions, yes, but people use the valve for different reasons. For some, it's to be comfortable with closer positions, for others, they want that register. Others use the valve to facilitate lip trills in the middle/upper register of the instrument. It's highly personal.

We have altos in both our showroom and will have them with us at ITF and ATW festivals. Come by and try them out in person, that's really how you will be able to tell what works for you!

I hope that helps.

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:26 am

Quote from: Duffle on Jan 14, 2016, 09:27AMI've seen an all nickel tuning slide on a large-bore. Is this a custom order item or a standard part? If it's custom is there an up charge?...

This is a custom item. There is no upcharge but it would be a non-returnable item.

Is there a particular reason you;d be interested in a nickel tuning slide vs. a yellow or gold brass one?

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:42 pm

Do you know what mpc/leadpipe combination RS uses with the .525/.547 slide?

ttf_Gabe Langfur · Post by **ttf_Gabe Langfur** » Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:01 am

Quote from: Ellrod on Jan 16, 2016, 11:42PMDo you know what mpc/leadpipe combination RS uses with the .525/.547 slide?

Ralph has a custom Schilke mouthpiece, essentially a 51 rim on a 50 cup in a special lightweight blank. It's small shank, and I think he uses the M2.5 pipe.

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:42 am

Thx Gabe. I was curious about the small/large shank => leadpipe question.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:55 am

There is also the "RS" lead pipe, which I don't know if he uses or not, but is a fantastic large shank 525 lead pipe. If I was doing a 525/547 slide, I'd definitely put that pipe as a high priority to try, it worked really well on the Sauer horn I tried at ITF a few years back.

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:38 pm

Quote from: Matt K on Jan 17, 2016, 10:55AMThere is also the "RS" lead pipe, which I don't know if he uses or not, but is a fantastic large shank 525 lead pipe. If I was doing a 525/547 slide, I'd definitely put that pipe as a high priority to try, it worked really well on the Sauer horn I tried at ITF a few years back.

Ben: any info/insight into RS leadpipe? Length, shape etc? Are there differences between the ss and ls versions? And, if possible, can you compare the RS ls with an MT4?

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:42 am

Quote from: Ellrod on Jan 17, 2016, 12:38PMBen: any info/insight into RS leadpipe? Length, shape etc? Are there differences between the ss and ls versions? And, if possible, can you compare the RS ls with an MT4?

The RS is our Vintage Elkhart pipe in medium bore. The venturi is similar to a 2.5 and the pipe is our shorter length. The difference between small and large shank is the receiver only, the venturi and length remain the same. We do not make an MT4 pipe, MT3 is the largest we make. In either case, it would be both longer and have a larger venturi than the MTRS.

Ben

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:17 am

I have a Shires MT 4 pipe.

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:25 pm

Quote from: Ellrod on Jan 18, 2016, 10:17AMI have a Shires MT 4 pipe.

You have a rare beast, indeed!

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:34 pm

Quote from: Matt K on Jan 17, 2016, 10:55AMThere is also the "RS" lead pipe, which I don't know if he uses or not, but is a fantastic large shank 525 lead pipe. If I was doing a 525/547 slide, I'd definitely put that pipe as a high priority to try, it worked really well on the Sauer horn I tried at ITF a few years back.

Good call MK. Received it yesterday, used it last night. First impressions very positive. Maybe I'll be able to add more on the weekend.

ttf_jennconducts · Post by **ttf_jennconducts** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:12 am

Quote from: Ellrod on Jan 17, 2016, 12:38PMBen: any info/insight into RS leadpipe? Length, shape etc? Are there differences between the ss and ls versions? And, if possible, can you compare the RS ls with an MT4?

I believe that it was in the Ralph model that I tried at NAMM. I can report that it (or whatever was in the horn) played SPECTACULARLY well, at least for me. I LOVED that instrument.

ttf_jennconducts · Post by **ttf_jennconducts** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:13 am

Quote from: Ellrod on Jan 17, 2016, 12:38PMBen: any info/insight into RS leadpipe? Length, shape etc? Are there differences between the ss and ls versions? And, if possible, can you compare the RS ls with an MT4?

I believe that it was in the Ralph model that I tried at NAMM. I can report that it (or whatever was in the horn) played SPECTACULARLY well, at least for me. I LOVED that instrument.

ttf_jennconducts · Post by **ttf_jennconducts** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:13 am

Quote from: Ellrod on Jan 17, 2016, 12:38PMBen: any info/insight into RS leadpipe? Length, shape etc? Are there differences between the ss and ls versions? And, if possible, can you compare the RS ls with an MT4?

I believe that it was in the Ralph model that I tried at NAMM. I can report that it (or whatever was in the horn) played SPECTACULARLY well, at least for me. I LOVED that instrument.

ttf_BillO · Post by **ttf_BillO** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:29 pm

This is still on the FAQ page:

How much does a Shires Trumpet or Trombone cost?
United States retail prices are listed for all instruments on this website above their descriptions. Please note that U.S. retail prices do *not* include tax (VAT for overseas customers or state tax for residents of Massachusetts or California).

However, there are no prices listed above the descriptions.

I think I have mentioned this to Ben more than once, and it has never been corrected.

ttf_SilverBone · Post by **ttf_SilverBone** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:38 pm

Quote from: BillO on Feb 02, 2016, 06:29PMThis is still on the FAQ page:

How much does a Shires Trumpet or Trombone cost?
United States retail prices are listed for all instruments on this website above their descriptions. Please note that U.S. retail prices do *not* include tax (VAT for overseas customers or state tax for residents of Massachusetts or California).

However, there are no prices listed above the descriptions.

I think I have mentioned this to Ben more than once, and it has never been corrected.

They are now officially what we've known all along: priceless!

ttf_HouBassTrombone · Post by **ttf_HouBassTrombone** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:42 pm

They have other things to do than update the website all the time. It isn't Amazon... They don't make their money through the Internet.