Struggles of a low placement upsteam embouchure....

[cb56]

I started playing trombone again a month ago after a several year layoff.
I've got my range back to C above middle C which is all I need. The problem is the 5th and 6th partials (F and Ab in first position) are hit and miss. I feel like I'm not getting the aperture small enough. My lower lip (which I feel does most if not all the buzzing) wants to pooch out causing all sorts of weird over tones, raspberry type sounds and sometimes no note at all. This happens whether I'm playing ascending or descending lines.

Ok, I know I've only been back at playing, but I've had this issue though all my playing days.
I'm playing a medium bore horn with a 7c. I started with a yamaha 48 which felt good on the chops but the 7c has more of the jazz/dance band sound I want. Plus the 7c seems to help a bit with range and flexibility.
I have a Benge 12c on order (should get here next monday) and I'll see if that helps but I'm afraid it might have too bright of a sound. I've read that the Benge 12c has a more open back bore than the bach so maybe not.

Maybe I need a smaller bore horn (.500 bore)? But I'm looking for a more open darker JJ type tone if possible (I know isn't everybody?)

All comments are appreciated but I'd really like to hear from low placement upstream players and hear how they battled this.
Thanks, cb

[Doug Elliott]

Almost definitely the lips are competing for dominance in the range where the problem happens. If you're really upstream through most of your range, there's a tendency for downstream to creep in right there. Or maybe it's a transition area where you're upstream in part of your range and downstream in the other part.

There are possibilities of different solutions. Get farther away from 50/50 placement. Horn angle might need to adjust. It might be a strength issue, or the specific placement of muscle tension where it shouldn't be. Or mouthpiece size, either bigger or smaller.

I have some time available next week.

[cb56]

My mouthpiece rests pretty much on the top of my chin.

When I free buzz ( which is hard for me to do)
The air goes up towards my nose in all ranges that I'm able to buzz. Btw sent you a pm a couple weeks ago. Figured you were snowed under with work

[cb56]

I wonder if I should get one of those embouchure visualizers ( mouthpiece rim on a stick) to make sure I'm upstream through all the registers.

[Doug Elliott]

Freebuzzing upstream doesn't help anything - at least I have never thought it was useful..

Buzzing on a rim may help, but what happens on a rim doesn't really tell you what happens in the acoustics and mechanics of the whole system including how you hold the horn .

Maybe see you next week?

[cb56]

Sure. Just give me details. I'm in Missouri central time

[cb56]

Doug, pm me with when you are available next week and how much you charge. I'm available Tuesday - Friday anytime during the day.

[cb56]

My Benge 12c arrived today. More security in higher range and better flexibility but tone not as full as my 7c. Plus my problem areas are still there.