When is a mouthpiece too big?

[Bach5G]

I don’t mean Schilke 60 in a 2B too big but rather the difference between 102, 103, and 104. I’m playing a DE 104 rim (G, G8) but, despite relatively assiduous practice, my high range remains unpersuasive.

[Burgerbob]

That's actually a good question. I can tell when a throat/backbore is too big, and to a lesser extent when a cup is too big.

I guess I just did go through this- I got a GB 2.5GSY used, and while I think the cup size and throat were appropriately sized, I got very fatigued on the rim size being just too big for the instrument.

FWIW, it took me a while for the 104 size to feel natural in the high register- to not rely on the rim to do the work for me.

[Doug Elliott]

Can you do a Skype call?

[harrisonreed]

I don’t mean Schilke 60 in a 2B too big but rather the difference between 102, 103, and 104. I’m playing a DE 104 rim (G, G8) but, despite relatively assiduous practice, my high range remains unpersuasive.

It just means you need a bigger mouthpiece.

[JohnL]

How do you know when a mouthpiece is too big?

When you can't climb back out after you've fallen in.

[Bach5G]

Can you do a Skype call?

I’ll contact you offline.

[muschem]

I don’t mean Schilke 60 in a 2B too big but rather the difference between 102, 103, and 104. I’m playing a DE 104 rim (G, G8) but, despite relatively assiduous practice, my high range remains unpersuasive.

It just means you need a bigger mouthpiece.

You joke, but I was fairly surprised that going bigger worked better for me. What surprised me most wasn't that a larger cup ID worked better, but that the scaling didn't seem as linear as I would have expected. For me, stepping up from 101-104 sizes, things got progressively more comfortable, improving flexibility and response at range extremes, and so on. Then there was a pretty steep drop off where things got worse in the 105-106 size range, which seemed to point to 104 as my upper limit. Counterintuitively (at least, to me), pushing past that zone where things didn't work, and going even bigger to the 108-110 range was actually a huge improvement again.

[EriKon]

That's indeed an interesting question and I've been wondering the same thing too. Every now and then I saw people reporting to more frequently crack notes when a rim is too small. Is there a similar transfer to a rim size that is too big?

[harrisonreed]

It just means you need a bigger mouthpiece.

You joke, but...

You know I ain't joking -- I play a 106.

[ghmerrill]

I think it's difficult to talk sensibly about a "mouthpiece" being bigger or smaller -- except in vague terms. The mouthpiece consists of the rim, the bowl, and the shank. Change any of these and you've got ... well ... a change. Change all of them simultaneously and you've probably got a bigger change. And this assumes that other things are held constant -- such as the particular instrument the mouthpiece is being stuffed into and (as a significant part of that) the lead pipe -- which you might also change and will affect how the mouthpiece is working.

Beyond that, there's the questions of "What do you want? What are you trying to achieve? What do you feel isn't right with your current setup?" I guess what I'm saying is that the question "When is a mouthpiece too big?" is a VERY complex question, even in terms of its meaning. I say this in the context of, for several weeks, rotating repeatedly through several combinations of rim, shank, and lead pipe in order to get what (I think) I need. I think I'm there now -- I think. Time to stop the experimentation and settle on one combination to play on.

[muschem]

You joke, but...

You know I ain't joking -- I play a 106.

I know. I'm glad you talk about it here, because I wouldn't have thought to try larger rim sizes otherwise.

I wish the 106 worked for me, so I could stay in the XT range instead of bothering Doug with tenor-depth cup requests in the SB line. I tried going back after experimenting with the 108 and 110, but still no dice. Something weird happens for me around that size. I'm sure its just my mechanics being off, but I get double-buzzes like crazy and feel really fatigued with a 106. Smaller or bigger than that, and those issues go away. I can make smaller sizes work, but its really uncomfortable and my shifts have to be much larger.

[harrisonreed]

Beyond that, there's the questions of "What do you want? What are you trying to achieve? What do you feel isn't right with your current setup?" I guess what I'm saying is that the question "When is a mouthpiece too big?" is a VERY complex question, even in terms of its meaning. I say this in the context of, for several weeks, rotating repeatedly through several combinations of rim, shank, and lead pipe in order to get what (I think) I need. I think I'm there now -- I think. Time to stop the experimentation and settle on one combination to play on.

The question was specified though. When is a mouthpiece too big, in terms of 102, 103, 104, etc.

No need to try and make it more complex.

[ghmerrill]

The question was specified though. When is a mouthpiece too big, in terms of 102, 103, 104, etc.

No need to try and make it more complex.

As specified, the question has certain assumptions behind it. I'm suggesting that if your goal is something like "better high range," and you want to constrain possible solutions to rim size, then you may very well be overlooking a more fundamental issue. But I'd also guess that Doug might provide the best insight, and it may have nothing to do with rim size at all.

[BrassSection]

Not much experience on various tenor trombone mouthpieces, have one I like and never tried anything else other than the King that came with the horn and a Bach 12 I had laying around just to say I tried them. Euph I switched from Olds 3 to Bach 6 1/2 AL and haven’t looked back. Trumpet, using Bach 12B, kinda small. Tried Holton MF3, that came with horn, visually larger than the Back and lost upper and lower range and sound quality…gave it a week and no improvements. Tried an Olds 3, while it works for me in an old trumpet, not so much in the Holton. While I’m not as happy with my trumpet MP as with all my other horns, bigger definitely was not better, and smaller gets me the notes and sound I’m looking for.