Contrabass in Brass Quintet?
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Contrabass in Brass Quintet?
Hey, friends! I'm back with another weird question:
Aside from the general issues of dexterity with a contrabass trombone, has anyone attempted to use it as the bass voice in a brass quintet? I've found myself in a position where I'll more than likely be switching down to the lowest chair, and the question arose in my head. There's a (VERY) large chance I'll just use bass, but I figured it's worth a discussion to see what others have experimented with. Discuss!
Aside from the general issues of dexterity with a contrabass trombone, has anyone attempted to use it as the bass voice in a brass quintet? I've found myself in a position where I'll more than likely be switching down to the lowest chair, and the question arose in my head. There's a (VERY) large chance I'll just use bass, but I figured it's worth a discussion to see what others have experimented with. Discuss!
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Re: Contrabass in Brass Quintet?
I've played a few pieces for brass quintet that called for contra instead of tuba or bass trombone (and were well written). I didn't really like the way it felt from the tenor spot. I remember it feeling like there was a pretty big tonal gap between the bottom voice and the rest of the group in a way that isn't there with bass or f tuba. Like that is just wanted a bass to fill the gap between myself and the person playing contra, if that makes sense?
BUT I'd also be really curious if would feel different with a F contra. the other times have been with BBb and CC contras, so maybe a "smaller" one would work better?
BUT I'd also be really curious if would feel different with a F contra. the other times have been with BBb and CC contras, so maybe a "smaller" one would work better?
trombone and composition faculty at CalArts
1/2 of RAGE Thormbones
they/them
https://mattiebarbier.bandcamp.com/
http://www.mattiebarbier.com/
1/2 of RAGE Thormbones
they/them
https://mattiebarbier.bandcamp.com/
http://www.mattiebarbier.com/
- Burgerbob
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Re: Contrabass in Brass Quintet?
Put simply, I just wouldn't want to hold up a contra that much.
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
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Re: Contrabass in Brass Quintet?
Maybe for lit that was intended for a bass bone, F contra wouldn't be bad. And it depends on how powerful the rest of the quintet is. Personally, I'm at the point with my own quintet that I only want to hear bass tuba, but that's specific to my own group. I can imagine situations where that would work, but your Bb Bankelsangerlieder might not be one of them.
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Re: Contrabass in Brass Quintet?
The regular Bass Trombone is a very good choice for a Brass Quintet - it seems to me that there is very little need to use a Contra. Nothing wrong with Tuba either, but there is a long, rich history of fine quintets with Bass Trombone - the American Brass Quintet, Annapolis come to mind. Sam Pilafian (sp?) used a Euphonium on some of the Empire Brass repertoire too. Sometimes a lighter instrument is nice. Depends on the player and the rest of the group as to what works best, but good players will always make it work.
Jim Scott
Jim Scott
- EdwardSolomon
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Re: Contrabass in Brass Quintet?
I've done it only once and it wasn't fun. You have to work far too hard to make it work because of the tonal gap between the tenor trombone and the contra, because of the sheer weight of the instrument (I had a BBb Mirafone at the time) and because sometimes it just really doesn't suit the music.
Let's face facts: the brass quintet as we know it started life as two cornetts and a trio of trombones, which eventually became two trumpets, a horn, a trombone, and a tuba. There's good reason why that combination works well - and also represents each member of the orchestral brass.
In summary, using the contra is too much like hard work.
Let's face facts: the brass quintet as we know it started life as two cornetts and a trio of trombones, which eventually became two trumpets, a horn, a trombone, and a tuba. There's good reason why that combination works well - and also represents each member of the orchestral brass.
In summary, using the contra is too much like hard work.
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Re: Contrabass in Brass Quintet?
Bingo.
Gabe Rice
Faculty
Boston University School of Music
Kinhaven Music School Senior Session
Bass Trombonist
Hartford Symphony Orchestra
Rhode Island Philharmonic Orchestra
Vermont Symphony Orchestra
Faculty
Boston University School of Music
Kinhaven Music School Senior Session
Bass Trombonist
Hartford Symphony Orchestra
Rhode Island Philharmonic Orchestra
Vermont Symphony Orchestra
- harrisonreed
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Re: Contrabass in Brass Quintet?
https://youtu.be/6pDH66X3ClA
trombone and composition faculty at CalArts
1/2 of RAGE Thormbones
they/them
https://mattiebarbier.bandcamp.com/
http://www.mattiebarbier.com/
1/2 of RAGE Thormbones
they/them
https://mattiebarbier.bandcamp.com/
http://www.mattiebarbier.com/
- harrisonreed
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Re: Contrabass in Brass Quintet?
That's great
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Re: Contrabass in Brass Quintet?
Speaking of the American Brass Quintet, I saw them recently at the University of Maryland. John Rojak sounded sooooo good! He made sound so easy.CalgaryTbone wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:53 pm The regular Bass Trombone is a very good choice for a Brass Quintet - it seems to me that there is very little need to use a Contra. Nothing wrong with Tuba either, but there is a long, rich history of fine quintets with Bass Trombone - the American Brass Quintet, Annapolis come to mind. Sam Pilafian (sp?) used a Euphonium on some of the Empire Brass repertoire too. Sometimes a lighter instrument is nice. Depends on the player and the rest of the group as to what works best, but good players will always make it work.
Jim Scott
On another note, there are recordings made by The Philharmonia Orchestra Brass Quintet doing Christmas songs. I believe the tuba player was using a smallish Eb. I really liked that sound for quintet. Of course, they're world-class musicians, but that size tuba really worked well.
- harrisonreed
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Re: Contrabass in Brass Quintet?
OP, did you get a contrabass yet or are you still trying to have the forum justify it for you?
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Re: Contrabass in Brass Quintet?
I guess I’ll be in the minority here…
I do use both contra and bass in a brass quintet. It depends what is being performed. I enjoy using the instrument in this setting.
I do use both contra and bass in a brass quintet. It depends what is being performed. I enjoy using the instrument in this setting.
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Re: Contrabass in Brass Quintet?
Do you have a recording so we can hear it in context? Or do you know other contra quintet recordings?
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Re: Contrabass in Brass Quintet?
I don’t have brass quintet recordings, but here are some chamber recordings…the Premru I performed on bass. The rest are on contra.
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Re: Contrabass in Brass Quintet?
Sounds great! Thank's for the concert. I especially liked the arrangement of Three Kings, liked the sound of your contraJohnstad wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:34 pm In a double brass quintet.
2020
2021
https://www.youtube.com/live/LYt3_WVQqHs?feature=share
I now read in your profile it is a Kanstul contra? I really like their bass trombone, it also gives that clear distinct sound. To my ears that contra sound blend very well with the tuba. as well as with the tenors.
I really like this forum when I see a sharing post like this.
This is music. This is the way to go, what it should be, and what I want more of. Thanks again.
/Tom
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Re: Contrabass in Brass Quintet?
Thanks for the comments, everyone! I appreciate the insights!
Oh, I've got one already, just a cheap clone to get the job done. I would not use something as trivial as this "maybe" situation to justify that large of a purchase!harrisonreed wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:54 am OP, did you get a contrabass yet or are you still trying to have the forum justify it for you?
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Re: Contrabass in Brass Quintet?
You bet Tom!imsevimse wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 4:14 amSounds great! Thank's for the concert. I especially liked the arrangement of Three Kings, liked the sound of your contraJohnstad wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:34 pm In a double brass quintet.
2020
2021
https://www.youtube.com/live/LYt3_WVQqHs?feature=share
I now read in your profile it is a Kanstul contra? I really like their bass trombone, it also gives that clear distinct sound. To my ears that contra sound blend very well with the tuba. as well as with the tenors.
I really like this forum when I see a sharing post like this.
This is music. This is the way to go, what it should be, and what I want more of. Thanks again.
/Tom
- BigBadandBass
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Re: Contrabass in Brass Quintet?
I’m a real big fan of either Eb tuba or (even more radical) a small bore tenor and bass trombone in a quintet. The Eb and that trombone combo mix up the sound really wellRrova wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:37 amSpeaking of the American Brass Quintet, I saw them recently at the University of Maryland. John Rojak sounded sooooo good! He made sound so easy.CalgaryTbone wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:53 pm The regular Bass Trombone is a very good choice for a Brass Quintet - it seems to me that there is very little need to use a Contra. Nothing wrong with Tuba either, but there is a long, rich history of fine quintets with Bass Trombone - the American Brass Quintet, Annapolis come to mind. Sam Pilafian (sp?) used a Euphonium on some of the Empire Brass repertoire too. Sometimes a lighter instrument is nice. Depends on the player and the rest of the group as to what works best, but good players will always make it work.
Jim Scott
On another note, there are recordings made by The Philharmonia Orchestra Brass Quintet doing Christmas songs. I believe the tuba player was using a smallish Eb. I really liked that sound for quintet. Of course, they're world-class musicians, but that size tuba really worked well.
Back to the main point though, as everyone else has said, that’s a lotta weight for not a lot of pay enough
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Re: Contrabass in Brass Quintet?
Those examples are nice playing, but to me they make the point that use of a contra is very music specific. And the contra worked best when it was mixed with the tuba in a bigger group. It's not something you want in every tune, or every instrumentation. It works best in about 25% of those examples, to my ear. It worked best in the trio stuff when it was in the upper part of the range (notes a big tenor could play easily).
There's a reason the contrabass bassoon is not called for more often. That sharp cutting sound works better higher in the register. Down lower you want a more pillowy sound. Like a tuba. You can play a tuba with a little edge, but it's hard to play a contrabass trombone low and loud without the edge. Just my thought. I play enough bass bone to know how hard it is to keep it from being obnoxious when you don't want it to be. I just think there's a limit to what you can do with low trombone sounds, at a certain point an F tuba - even a small F tuba - is a better choice.
There's a reason the contrabass bassoon is not called for more often. That sharp cutting sound works better higher in the register. Down lower you want a more pillowy sound. Like a tuba. You can play a tuba with a little edge, but it's hard to play a contrabass trombone low and loud without the edge. Just my thought. I play enough bass bone to know how hard it is to keep it from being obnoxious when you don't want it to be. I just think there's a limit to what you can do with low trombone sounds, at a certain point an F tuba - even a small F tuba - is a better choice.