Doubling on Baritone Horn

[CharlieB]

Baritone newby here. Hoping there may be some baritone doublers.
After being a trombonist for many years, I recently started to double on baritone. I picked up a very nice H.N.White
bell-front baritone horn from the 1950's. Couple of questions............
1. The valve action is smooth, but the valves rattle because of some looseness due to wear where the valve
guides ride up and down in the vertical slot in the casings. Is this normal? Repairable? No big deal?
2. The valves like to collect lots of water in the ports. I have to pull each valve and dump it. This is after I've
drained the water keys and pulled and dumped the valve tuning slides. Is that normal, or do I need to do
something about it?

[Gary]

I don't know where you are financially (or what your financial priorities are), but if it were me, I'd send it off to Jim Becker at Osmun Music, Doctor Valve or any other good repairmen to get the horn in a condition where you're not distracted by it but concentrated on playin it.

[BGuttman]

Your 2nd valve (and probably 3rd valve) loops do not have water keys and must be pulled. I find I need to pull the 2nd valve slide of my Conn 4 valver frequently to dump moisture. Especially if the room is cold or I've just started playing.

Sloppy valve guides can be fixed. Not a do-it-yourself project unless you are a skilled machinist. As long as you don't have leaks or constrictions, you should be OK. You will need more valve oil because of this.

[Doug Elliott]

More than likely the valves and casings are worn, not the guides.

[Ndwood]

Many older horns have metal valve guides that are going to be pretty clanky no matter what. They can be replaced with modern nylon ones but someone might have to make custom ones for you.

[walldaja]

This is quite a natural double and gives you tonal flexibility to get the sound that is appropriate for the music. It is also nice when your stuck in a confined space and can't move your slide without damaging it. I played mine in a group for two years even though the director thought he wanted a trombone. I told him several times I'd be glad to play trombone but I did need a little room for my slide but it never seemed to sink in.

[hyperbolica]

Sometimes I wish I had a baritone, but I have a valve-front euphonium. One of the things I like most about it is that I can sit back in my recliner and play it. Trombone makes you sit up straight, but if you just want to chill out and toot a little, there's nothing like a valve instrument you kind of lean back and hug while you play.

[harrisonreed]

Baritone solos abound for the first 10 minutes or so... But especially at 1:27

Makes me want one.

[Vegastokc]

Baritone newby here....

Bought my first (and so far only) Baritone last year: 1959 3-valve Olds Ambassador.
I was always afraid of learning valves growing up - so much so I avoided doing DCI in the late 80's/early 90's because all they used back then were valves.
Since I can usually only practice on it once a week, I'm still (slowly) working on getting the fingerings. I do find it to be really fun to play and it seems to help my breathing and airflow when going back to the trombone.
Honestly though, why do these things even have water keys?
You end up pulling every slide to dump all the time anyway.
Have fun.

[whitbey]

I play the euph too.

The biggest thing I need to play a euph well is a lever to move the tuning slide. The upper register can be so sharp. Lipping the pitch down is not normal for us trombones as we have our hand slides. A lever to kick out the tuning slide gives a major skill improvement.

[tbonesullivan]

2. The valves like to collect lots of water in the ports. I have to pull each valve and dump it. This is after I've drained the water keys and pulled and dumped the valve tuning slides. Is that normal, or do I need to do something about it?

Whoa, like stuck inside the valve piston itself? That's kinda weird, as usually it would flow down inside the casing or down into the valve slides. Before you empty the condensation the normal way, do you tilt the horn to the front or back?

It could also be that the ports are not lining up fully, so the water condensation gets trapped in the valve.

[Molefsky]

Baritone horn and Euphonium are not the same instrument as any brass bander will eagerly point out to you. You're likely playing a vintage American style euphonium.

Further, whether your instrument is top action or front action will have an effect on water accumulation. Pull slides to empty water. Expect to oil your valves about every two hours of playing. Try using a thicker oil to help with valve noise and even response due to compression issues.

[Mikebmiller]

After playing euph for. 20 years, I finally had spit valves installed on my 3rd and 4th valve tuning slides recently. That saves a lot of dumping and only cost about $50.

[CharlieB]

Thanks to all who replied.
I've been studying the valves, and I see that the design allows water to puddle in low areas of the piston passages when the horn is in the playing position. (Front valve horn) The only way I have been able to get it out is to pull the valves and dump them. There must be a way to get that water to move to the tuning crooks for dumping. I'm pretty sure this is due to my inexperience and not due to a problem with the horn. Is there a certain way to tilt the horn, or depress pistons while blowing air in, etc.?