Monette Trombone?

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Fruitysloth
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Monette Trombone?

Post by Fruitysloth »

I remember seeing a few videos back in the day about Monette making some trombone components, and thought I'd look for them again. They're still up, Aaron LaVere of the Baltimore symphony has/had one, and there's a more recent video of a a jazz slide mated to a Shires bell section. Has anybody had experience with these? I know I'm never going to be able to afford that sort of thing, but it was interesting to see Monette create these horns.
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harrisonreed
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Re: Monette Trombone?

Post by harrisonreed »

I think they only made a slide and a leadpipe. And they claimed that the slide was not susceptible to any intonation issues in any given harmonic series. Considering that the tapers in the bell section and the mouthpiece backbore are big parts of how the partials line up, and it was only a slide, I didn't believe that they had to say about that slide -- their MOUTHPIECES are marketed as the only solution to stretched partials, and that "science" actually sort of makes sense, so....wha??

If they've made trombones that's news to me and they've gotta be one-offs. Monette isn't in the business of making trombones.
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Re: Monette Trombone?

Post by Burgerbob »

They've made a few, I think, in the '90s and then a couple more in the last few years. They definitely haven't made a lot of headway.

If they're anything like the mouthpieces and trumpets, they're not my cup of tea.
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paulyg
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Re: Monette Trombone?

Post by paulyg »

I think that their "secret sauce," as it pertained to trombone slides, was to eliminate gaps/jumps where the slide crook meets the outer tubes. There was some mention of filed-down ferrules, or special ferrules, or something. I'm sure the slide was well-built and smooth, as well.

Attempts have been made to iron out the internals of trombones before. I know the Bach A47 comes with a shim to close the gap between the slide tenon and the valve knuckle (inside the bell receiver), and my new bass with a one-off valve section has something similar. Hoelle tuning slides eliminate the steps between slide legs and the bend. A metal gasket is machined into Greenhoe ferrules.
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Fruitysloth
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Re: Monette Trombone?

Post by Fruitysloth »

harrisonreed wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:51 am I think they only made a slide and a leadpipe. And they claimed that the slide was not susceptible to any intonation issues in any given harmonic series. Considering that the tapers in the bell section and the mouthpiece backbore are big parts of how the partials line up, and it was only a slide, I didn't believe that they had to say about that slide -- their MOUTHPIECES are marketed as the only solution to stretched partials, and that "science" actually sort of makes sense, so....wha??

If they've made trombones that's news to me and they've gotta be one-offs. Monette isn't in the business of making trombones.
I just saw a video posted about 6 (?) years back with Aaron LaVere playing what looks to be a straight orchestral full Monette horn. Since then it seems that he's now a Greenhoe artist now, so I'm wondering where that horn went. The horns/slides/bells are definitely one-off's as I've only seen one full horn, and a small bore slide. From what I've heard of their trumpet demos, and Aaron's playing of some orchestral literature, there's definitely something about the sound that's different. Not better or worse than other players on different horns, just different. Placebo effect maybe? I've definitely felt like I played "better" on certain horns because of my thoughts on a horn. I'm touring with a band here in a month or so, playing in a couple places in Oregon, going to try to stop by the factory and see about trying some mouthpieces/see if they've got a horn/slide combo to try. Obviously won't walk away with a prototype, I'm no pro, but I'm always interested in trying new things!

paulyg wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:58 am I think that their "secret sauce," as it pertained to trombone slides, was to eliminate gaps/jumps where the slide crook meets the outer tubes. There was some mention of filed-down ferrules, or special ferrules, or something. I'm sure the slide was well-built and smooth, as well.

Attempts have been made to iron out the internals of trombones before. I know the Bach A47 comes with a shim to close the gap between the slide tenon and the valve knuckle (inside the bell receiver), and my new bass with a one-off valve section has something similar. Hoelle tuning slides eliminate the steps between slide legs and the bend. A metal gasket is machined into Greenhoe ferrules.
I didn't think that the slide tenon/valve knuckle spot would be an issue regarding airflow/tuning. Metal gasket in Greenhoe ferrules? Certainly an interesting concept.
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Re: Monette Trombone?

Post by Kbiggs »

Ending about 15 years ago, I played in a quintet for 10 years with some of the fellows who worked at the Monette factory. These are my opinions/impressions from a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...

For many years, I played a Monette trombone mouthpiece, and briefly played one of the prototype trombones when my regular tenor was in the shop. I can’t speak for his trumpet equipment, except as a sound recipient/receiver and member of the band. The trombone equipment was... very different to play. I needed to be very alert, attentive, relaxed and effort-full all at the same time to get a good sound.

When you can physically and mentally focus to the degree and extent needed, Monette equipment produces a unique sound—very present, lots of projection, and an unusual balance of high/mid/low frequencies. No, it’s not to everyone’s taste, and eventually I decided on other equipment. But, I found that when my attention slipped, if I slouched, if I didn’t have my timing and production just right, then the instrument didn’t respond well and it sounded poor. Again, this was my experience, but there was very little room for error in a player’s production of sound to get a beautiful and consistent sound out the bell. Compared to more standard equipment (Bach, Greg Black, Schilke, Greg Black, Denis Wick, etc.), you have a lot more room for error in sound production and still get a beautiful consistent sound.

What’s in the secret sauce? I don’t know what’s in his new trombones, or even the status of his trombone line. When Dave talked with me about his trombone mpcs., he pointed out what he thought was the most important part of a mpc., what he called the guts: the throat, the funnel leading into the throat, and the backbore. If you look carefully at a Monette mpc., these are all very different compared to other more standard designs.

I think Monette equipment is similar to some of Adolphe Sax’s experimental instruments, including saxophones and saxhorns. They are here, and they have a sizable and vocal following. Maybe they will stick around like the saxophone, maybe they won’t—like the saxotromba.

Try before you buy, and especially try in a setting with your section mates in rehearsal. You’ll get feedback on it.
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I have known a great many troubles, but most of them have never happened.
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bassclef
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Re: Monette Trombone?

Post by bassclef »

When I was in college in the late-90s, I tried a Monette bell that was bolted on to an early Shires setup. It was red brass, unlacquered and thicker in gauge than the hood of my car. Might've weighed 5 pounds by itself. It was for sale at the time. I offered the owner $150 to throw in in the trash.
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Re: Monette Trombone?

Post by Slideorama »

Norman Bolter talks extensively about his Monette horn and demonstrates it in various videos on his youtube channel. Some of the old Evenings at the Pops videos of the Boston Pops show Bolter rocking the Monette in the orchestra. Of course, Doug Yeo has also written about his mostly Monette horn he played in Baltimore and Boston.
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Matt K
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Re: Monette Trombone?

Post by Matt K »

I believe I recall Jim Pugh having at least some components of a horn if not a complete instrument from Monette. But I have absolutely no idea where I saw that.
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Re: Monette Trombone?

Post by FullPedalTrombonist »

I recall the same, so we can’t both be crazy.
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harrisonreed
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Re: Monette Trombone?

Post by harrisonreed »

Their Facebook said it took 25 years to make it for him. And it still wasn't ready. Granted, it's an older post, but seriously, they aren't in the trombone business, guys. Not a trombone is listed as any sort of available item on their site.

Kbiggs
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Re: Monette Trombone?

Post by Kbiggs »

Jim Pugh visited the Monette shop several times over the last 20 years. One of the first of Monette’s Prana mpcs. For trombone was made with Jim in mind. Dave Monette is kind of an unusual guy. He may have taken a liking to Jim, heard something he wanted to change, convinced Jim it was worth the time and effort to experiment. A one-off, so to speak, that has been years in the making.
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