Conn 70H Help?

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ajroosevelt
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Conn 70H Help?

Post by ajroosevelt »

I'm setting up Skype lessons for my son on the Bass Trombone. His normal tenor is a Vintage 88H.....so he is trying a 70H. Production year is 1952, I think. (Serial 419xxx) We have the 70H from a friend for evaluation. After cracking open the case, we had a few questions that anyone familiar with the Conn Bass Trombones could probably answer.

1) The horn has a spring loaded slide, but we can't find a slide lock on it. Is there a way to lock the slide so it doesn't fall out accidentally?

2) It appears that there is a tuning slide for the F-attachment, but it is frozen. Is it supposed to move (as it would on the 88H) or is all the tuning supposed to done through the tuner on the slide?

The 70H is 'on loan' from a widowed musician right now. Her husband, who passed away several years ago played the horn....so it has been sitting in a basement for a few years. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few mechanical repairs needed.

Appreciate any help you can give use.

Thank you. Son is 14 and very enthusiastic about the trombone. He's been playing for 5 years now.
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elmsandr
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Re: Conn 70H Help?

Post by elmsandr »

Some of those older ones do not have slide locks. Be careful!

As for the tuning slide, yes the long F attachment tuning slide should move. Probably just needs to be loosened and cleaned after some time in storage. I wouldn’t suggest doing too much to it as it isn’t yours yet. A professional cleaning would not be a bad idea for a new to you horn anyway.

Cheers,
Andy
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Burgerbob
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Re: Conn 70H Help?

Post by Burgerbob »

Older 70Hs don't have slide locks.

The F attachment tuning slide should move, yes.

The 70H is probably not the best choice for the young player... ergonomics aren't stellar (very front heavy), a bit different to play than most "modern" basses. Great horns, but I'd rather a younger player start on something a bit more mainstream.
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
modelerdc
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Re: Conn 70H Help?

Post by modelerdc »

I agree that a good professional cleaning is in order, and have the tech look at that frozen slide. You'll have to get permission form the owner for this. No slide lock means it's really vintage, not a bad thing as Conn made great horns back then. You don't really need a slide lock. I only use mine when I put the trombone away, in the case. Out of the case I always assume that the slide isn't locked and this prevents accidents, such as picking up the horn thing you left the slide lock on, and then the slide falls off!
Thrawn22
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Re: Conn 70H Help?

Post by Thrawn22 »

How much?
6H (K series)
6H (early 60s)
4H/5H custom bell
78H ('53)
78H (K series)
78H/36BG /2547 slide
8H
88HN
71H (dependant valves)
72H
35H alto (K series)
ajroosevelt
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Re: Conn 70H Help?

Post by ajroosevelt »

"How much?" Don't have a price on it yet.
FOSSIL
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Re: Conn 70H Help?

Post by FOSSIL »

The 70H is one of the all time great bass trombone designs, but proceed with caution regarding use by a young player. The slide is very heavy but also delicate and easily damaged. Otherwise a great instrument and it likes the smaller bass trombone mouthpieces, which is where you want to start from with a youngster.

Chris
sf105
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Re: Conn 70H Help?

Post by sf105 »

Agree with Chris. I love the sound of my 70H, but it's not the easiest horn to play. And, depending on where he plays, he might want 2 valves (there are some very good inexpensive options these days). Otherwise, he could get away with just popping a bigger mouthpiece into the 88H.

And whatever you end up doing, that horn needs to be back in circulation.
sf105
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Re: Conn 70H Help?

Post by sf105 »

First, given your son's age, please make sure that neither of those horns are being used for marching band. It sounds like he's too careful for that.

Perhaps another way to look at it is like a vintage auto of that era. If you want low maintenance and fuel efficiency, it's the wrong model. If you want style, that's a different question.
ajroosevelt
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Re: Conn 70H Help?

Post by ajroosevelt »

Thank you for all your posts. I will try to answer all questions.

1) Asking price of the Horn is $1,200. Owner (private party) has agreed to rent it to me for a few months to determine if the 70H is the correct horn for Braden. (What else is someone going to do with a spare horn during the quarantine).

2) No need to worry about this horn (70H) or his 88H going to High School with him. He has a King 608 that we purchased from DJ Kennedy a few years ago that works out perfectly for High School Concert Band and Marching band.

3) I understand that no one wants a 14 year old kid to touch a vintage horn. The vintage Conns fit him so well though.....Only time his 88H has been out of the house has been for select performances. He has had the 88H for nearly 3 years now.

4) The 70H has the same taper on the mouthpiece as his 88H. Most people call it the "Remington." He's tried the Remington on the 70H, but first impression is that he prefers the Kelly 1.5G. (We had it laying around the house...didn't go out and purchase it). Any thoughts on the 1.5G?

5) Now that I have heard it, I can say the 70H has a great sound in the lower registers. Nice and full and projects really well.

6) If our son ends up playing the 70H outside of the house, it would most likely be for a solo performance. His high school band is too small to need a Bass....

7) We have learned that the primary problem with the Conn Vintage horns is that most techs are scared of them. This is a consideration. We have to drive about an hour and a half to Meridian Winds (Lansing/Okemos) for service on his 88H. This is likely the shop we would use if we were to purchase the 70H.
sf105
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Re: Conn 70H Help?

Post by sf105 »

Good to hear your responses. 1.5G is a perfectly respectable size.

You might try a little plumber's tape around the shank to see if it fits better, maybe get your tech to grind it down a bit when you visit.

Great find.
bigbandbone
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Re: Conn 70H Help?

Post by bigbandbone »

I'm playing a 72H. I started out with a Bach 1 1/2G which was OK, but when I switched to a slightly bigger mouthpiece (Denis Wick 0AL Heratige) the horn really opened up (for me). As soon as I'm sure his set up works for me I will have the mouthpiece shank converted to the proper taper. Until then a single wrap of masking tape stops the wobble, gets the mouthpiece to stop at the correct depth, and lasts for about 10 days before I need to change the tape.
ajroosevelt
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Re: Conn 70H Help?

Post by ajroosevelt »

Thank you for the tips. Will let you know the decision on the 70H.

His music teacher today gave him long-tones and intervals in order to get his chops and lungs into shape. Etudes are both from Bordogni (43 Bel Canto Studies) - #2 and #8.

If you happen to know a couple of contemporary pieces (around this level) that would be fun for a new and younger Bass Trombonist, please let me know. The tenor solo he has been auditioning with (Korsakov Trombone Concerto first/second movements) is a bit too high on the Bass T for him right now.
GabrielRice
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Re: Conn 70H Help?

Post by GabrielRice »

I am a professional bass trombone player, and I own a vintage 70H. I don't play it all the time because it doesn't work well in a section with big modern orchestral tenors, but it's a wonderful instrument that I do have occasional use for. If your son is serious about playing trombone, it will be an instrument he'll cherish and play from time to time, even when he gets a more modern bass trombone later. And if he's that serious and loves playing that much, I think it will be great for him to learn bass trombone on it. $1200 is a very fair price; many people would probably pay more if it's in great condition, and it should hold that value well - or even increase in value - if it's cared for.

More thoughts, in no particular order:

If a tech is scared of touching a vintage instrument, I wouldn't trust them with any professional instrument.

A mouthpiece with the correct shank taper will make this horn play even better. I would advise you to buy a 1-1/2G size mouthpiece from a maker that will do it. I play Doug Elliott pieces, and I have several old Conn shanks from him from him that work great. Greg Black can do it and does beautiful work - it will probably take longer to get an order from him than from Doug. There are others as well, but those are the two I recommend most highly.
timbone
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Re: Conn 70H Help?

Post by timbone »

There were a few different bells depending on the years of the 70H, 9-9.5. I would not say the slide is too heavy, even if it is a TIS horn (which this appears not to be). If you do have a TIS horn, great! That is indeed part of the sound. Chances are that the tuning in the slide is probably where it should be anyway. Learn how to hold it and enjoy it, some of the best horns did not come with slide locks btw. With regards to the tuning slide, I think most players set and forget, please consider, you are playing a tuning slide! A lot of people overlook that fact that the slide is the sound "engine" and the bell is the 'speaker". Your core of sound is the mouthpiece and slide first and foremost. Weight is good. A good slide well prepared will have its own inertia. Its like driving a big old car and you'll get there in the same time. Don't worry about lead pipes, if yours is the factory one (hope so) find a mouthpiece to mate with it- the 1 1/2 is a great mouthpiece! A 2G may be a better place to start and is great also. Robert Hughes made his living on a 2G and he had something in common with the late Phil Teel- they both sounded like liquid gold. That's another post. Stick with a single valve bass and learn that, it will pay dividends later. You can compare that to tenor players who start on a valve instrument and never "learn" the straight tenor, just an opinion. The key here is to keep your son engaged and excited about the trombone.
imsevimse
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Re: Conn 70H Help?

Post by imsevimse »

The Conn 70h is a great bass with a great sound.
I know good people say they like smaller mouthpieces. I'm a doubler and I'm very fond of the mouthpieces made by Karl Hammond. The Conn 70h has a Remington taper and therefore a modern mouthpiece will not fit properly. Many use modern mouthpieces anyhow and they work, but modern mouthpieces have a Moorse taper so they will wobble a bit. When you've tried a mouthpiece that fits the taper you know it makes a great difference. I have just one Hammond bass trombone mouthpiece with Remington taper and it is a 20BL It is about the size of a Bach 1 1/4 G. To me that mouthpiece is a good match with the Conn 70h, but again I have no smaller mouthpiece with Remington taper to compare. My Conn 70h has no slide lock either.

/Tom
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