Traditional Tuning Slide VS Tuning in Slide

[mrdeacon]

Hi!

I'm just curious as to how you guys would compare playing on a traditional tuning slide (Bach/Holton style or reversed) vs tuning in slide?

How would you compare sound between the two? Is the blow different?

Hopefully, this doesn't stir up too much trouble. I have my own opinions on this but I'm curious as to what you guys to say!

[HawaiiTromboneGuy]

I’m interested to hear thoughts on this as well.

[harrisonreed]

The TIS shires alto is the best I've ever played. One of the best trombones I've ever played, period. It is the only TIS trombone I've tried. I have cut the tuning slide on my conn 36H prior to playing the Shires, and do "tuning with slide" on that trombone. It it pays nearly as well as the Shires alto, but the Shires is better. Reducing the length of the cylindrical section in the bell on the 36H made it play much better, and the partials are not nearly as wonky for intonation.

The only thing I did not like about the TIS is the weight -- its a heavy slide.

[EdwardSolomon]

Slide tuning trombones have a more uniform response across the entire range of the instrument vis-à-vis a bell tuning model. It is a system that has proven more popular on bass trombones than on any other size. Perhaps that is because the difference is less noticeable on higher pitched trombones. There is a very good reason why instruments such as the Conn 70H, 60H, 62H and clones thereof have proven consistently popular and that has to do with the clarity of sound and even response. Little wonder that such classic instruments are still in demand today, many years after production ceased, while sales of modern reproductions continue to grow.

[EdwardSolomon]

The only thing I did not like about the TIS is the weight -- its a heavy slide.

Depends very much on the mechanism used and the manufacturer. I played a Rath R9DST for years and the weight added to the slide was barely noticeable. Older models, such as the 'opera wheel' Conns, were definitely more sluggish, but there is no reason to avoid TIS trombones because of the slide weight. Modern reproductions are exceptionally well made and quite ergonomic.

[hyperbolica]

To me it's all about the sound. I have a Kanstul 1662i and an Olds S20 both with TIS. These two horns really don't have much in common other than the TIS. The sound is more velvety without being too dark or undefined.

The Olds slide is truly the heaviest I've ever played, but the Kanstul is very usable. Once you find the groove with these, the sound is very stable.

[FOSSIL]

Ha ! I've probably looked into this more than most people... I've converted my bell tuning Raths into slide tuning and then back to bell tuning when Mick was developing the TIS models, I have a 70H that I have converted to bell tuning and have owned numerous Conn TIS horns.
You can only really tell the difference if you can play the same instrument built up in both configurations.... which I have....
... and the answer.....
IT DEPENDS
I know you will not want to hear that but honestly, the differences can be less than you might think.
Any trombone should be a total design with the elements balanced out. TIS adds mass at the slide and bell tuning adds mass nearer the bell. A good overall design takes that into account and builds accordingly. I have, and have had, great trombones of each type....simple as that.
What I would say is that the Conn 60H and 62H and the Fuchs Conn that they were preceded by are designs that were truly great and 50 years after the last were made, are still being used professionally in world class orchestras.... pretty impressive.

Chris

[elmsandr]

A little mass on the slide can be a wonderful thing.... paired with the right changes in the bell section.

I play mostly Bach style horns. One nifty thing about vintage Bachs, the slides are heavier. The oversleeves are both long and I would bet that the rest is just heavier as well. My NY 50 and 45 slides are plain heavy. But, pair them with the thinner bells, they provide a great system.

Interestingly, my current favorite slide is a replacement slide I had M&W build for a Fuchs (still dumb that I can’t play it on its home horn yet, my fault). The little bit of mass on the slide is a great fit for those same Bach bell sections. It is really an amazing combo, but reached through two different means.

Cheers,
Andy

[Crazy4Tbone86]

I was quite fascinated with TIS trombones about 15 years ago. Being that I am a symphonic tenor player, my focus was on the .547 bore horns. Before trying any TIS instruments, I was convinced that they should be superior. After all, a constant taper from the slide tenon to the bell was a great design point.

I was fortunate enough to attend four or five trombone festivals in a row that had a good selection of TIS .547 bore instruments. There were Greenhoes, Kanstuls and a couple other makes. I even remember one guy who had created a few constant-taper bell sections with Bach 42 bells. I tried them all at these shows and spent a lot of time with these horns. I was very careful to do comparisons of TIS horns with the same “equivalent” instrument that had conventional tuning in the bell.

As stated, I really expected to find the TIS trombones superior, but was surprised by my findings. Yes, the TIS instruments were a little more front heavy, but that is simple weight distribution. I found that, with all other control factors the same, the TIS trombones had a little less focus and core. The difference was subtle, but noticeable especially in the louder dynamic spectrum. On the positive side, I thought all of the TIS horns played very sweetly in the softer spectrum.

The straight tubing in the trombone tuning slide serves as a slight constriction point that helps focus the sound. Even on brands that have a tapered tuning slide, the rate of diameter growth is slowed to a point of constriction and it helps focus the sound. It turns out that the tuning slide serves multiple purposes.....tuning and a much needed “constriction point” that helps define the traditional tenor trombone sound.

[Thrawn22]

I had an Olds tis bass and didn't notice much a difference in much. I like heavier slides so that wasn't an issue and i didn't get complaints on how i sounded.