Selmer Bolero with engraved bell

[micka572]

Hi, I live in France and have found a Selmer Bolero with engraved bell, it's the first one I see with an engraved bell, need help to found out if it's original or if the bell comes from an another model.

Thanks

[BGuttman]

We'll need some pictures of the bell engraving.

[henryTbone]

Hi, I live in France and have found a Selmer Bolero with engraved bell, it's the first one I see with an engraved bell, need help to found out if it's original or if the bell comes from an another model.

Thanks

I had a silver plated Bolero with nice engraving a couple of years ago. They do exist. Picture will help to answer your question. To my knowledge there is no compatible Model where the bell could come from. Have searched, bought, rebuild, played and sold a bunch of Selmer Boleros.

[micka572]

This pattern

https://www.google.com/search?q=selmer+ ... VfMvLSPcdM

[BGuttman]

You aren't helping. We need pictures of the actual instrument you are asking about. Most of us are familiar with the Selmer Bolero and quite a few of us actually play one.

[micka572]

[BGuttman]

Much better. Thank you.

It doesn't look much different from others I've seen.

[henryTbone]

Engraving looks exactly like the one on my Bolero. It also has, unlike the later ones, the small Kranz. I prefer the sound from the earlier bells.

[micka572]

Can you explain what the Kratz is?

And with years are the early ones?

[Bach5G]

Krantz. Not Wayne, a NY guitarist but German for ‘ring’. In this case, a ring of metal around the bell of the horn.

Although, Wayne is worth a listen.

[micka572]

Ok thanks.

Is there any solution to know the year of production with the serial number ?

[henryTbone]

Well.......NO
I tried to collect Serial Numer and Instrument info years ago on the previous Forum without any luck.

After all....does it really matter if your horn was made in 1964 or 1974???
(...This is a wild guess, based on the pictures.)
If it is in good condition....enjoy.
The fun is in the music you make, nobody cares how old your horn is.
Just take good care of it.
If the pictures above show the horn you own.....congrats.
A very very fine example of a Selmer Bolero.

[micka572]

Thanks

[bellend]

I have had a couple of these and the older one had the same engraving .

I wouldn't personally call that a Krantz which in my book is a separate metal disk usually made of Nickel Silver that is spun, trimmed and placed over the main bell then held in place by turning the bead of the main bell to hold it in place .This is what's on the Olds Super , and Reynolds Contempora amongst others . On older German horns the Krantz can also be secured by spinning the Nickel the other way over the edge of the original bell.
I've often thought that Elkhart 8/88H bells are made to try and replicate the properties of a Krantz with a dramatic increase in gauge as you get near the rim edge.

What you see on the Bolreo is what we always called a French Bead which would seem appropriate?

I would agree that at least in the ones I've played the older bells play better.

I've also played an M40 which was the last incarnation of the Bolero
It had a red brass bell which looked great and played terribly...... regret selling the old one but the tax bill beckoned

BellEnd

[MStarke]

I have a Bolero without the "Kranz", but with a nice engraving on the bell.

I have no clue how old it is, but it plays very nicely. Currently I don't have direct comparison to e.g. a 3B.
Response is good and even in "all" registers - admitting that I have not explored pedals too much with this instrument
Sound is not too dark, not too bright. I would say quite smooth and useable for a broad range of settings.
There are probably other horns with the same specs that play/feel smaller.

I like it a lot and just had the slide reworked a little, but as said I don't have too much direct comparison.

[Finetales]

One of my Largos had the French bead, the other didn't. Both were great players, but the one without the bead (and 9" diameter instead of 8.5") had better intonation. The one with the bead was all over the place...notes the opposite of where they are on any other trombone (for example, the 6th partial F wasn't sharp at all and the 5th partial D was quite sharp).

When I bought the first Largo at DJ's there was also a Bolero there (with F). I didn't gel with it. Much happier with my 3B and 3BF, even though the Bolero has often been described on here and the old forum as a 3B on steroids.

[micka572]

Hi, finally received my bolero, love it.

Just a small problem, the slide is not awful but not as good as my 4 years old yahama too.

Don't know what to expect from a 50/60 years old slide.

After a bath and many run through with the brass saver brush nothing comes out of the tubes.

After that the slide sounds like it has sand between inner and outer.

No dents, aligned (I have give it to a tech, said it's an old bone, don't know if somethin' else would improve).

Inner slide looks kind of dull, not shiny on all the surface.

When I let fall vertically it's really good, it's when I hold it in play position that it become slow and noisy.

[bellend]

Hi, finally received my bolero, love it.

Just a small problem, the slide is not awful but not as good as my 4 years old yahama too.

Don't know what to expect from a 50/60 years old slide.

After a bath and many run through with the brass saver brush nothing comes out of the tubes.

After that the slide sounds like it has sand between inner and outer.

No dents, aligned (I have give it to a tech, said it's an old bone, don't know if somethin' else would improve).

Inner slide looks kind of dull, not shiny on all the surface.

When I let fall vertically it's really good, it's when I hold it in play position that it become slow and noisy.

You could try pouring some Kettle de scaler in to the outer slide and letting it soak for a few hours, this will remove the build up of crud that will have accumulated over the years. You can I believe get citrus based ones if you're worried about the chemicals. Thoroughly flush the slide through and then start wiping it out with a cleaning rod . This could take some time but keep going till it's completely clean then try lubing it up to see how it is. It might initially sound worse but this should settle down in time once the lube oozes into all the little nooks and cranies. If it were me I'd try Trombotine at first which after 40 + years of experimentation seems to work best on slides with these issues, then as it settles down again you could then switch back to something a bit lighter. One word of caution the outer slide legs on these are a little bit softer than many horns so don't ram the cleaning rod in or you likely to distort the tube.

Good luck!

BellEnd

[micka572]

Thank you, I've read here that some people mix trombotine with Yamaha knot.

If money is not a problem isn't it better to take it to a repair shop for ultrasonic cleaning and good cleaning ?