TR180 description from eBay

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bigbandbone
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TR180 description from eBay

Post by bigbandbone »

This is the description of a TR180 for sale on eBay. I've never heard of flat E tuning (not Eb). Is this explanation accurate? Are other brands and models also tuned to flat E.?

Holton TR180 Bass Trombone from 1972. This is the model that professor Lewis Van Haney, Indiana University like to play on the most. The valve configuration is rotor dependent Bb/F/bE tuning. Simply put, the first valve is like an F trigger on a tenor. The second valve only functions when the first valve is in and the not produced in first position is a flat E (Not D or Eb, but a flat E). The purpose of the second valve on this model is to allow the player to play a low B in 7th position identical to the B one octave above it as played on a tenor in 7th position without any valve. A low C can then be played with both valves in, with a slightly raised 6th position. This is a very simple and intuitive approach to bass trombone, ideal for a tenor doubler. Freshly Cleaned and serviced, chemical bath, flush, valves removed cleaned aligned & adjusted for maximum playability. Handslide has been realigned and adjusted. Has 10" Rose Brass Bell, Standard LT Nickel .562 bore bass slide.
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BGuttman
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Re: TR180 description from eBay

Post by BGuttman »

The original second valve on double valve bass trombones was supposed to be a "fast E pull" and thus put the instrument in flat E -- just long enough to reach low B at the end of the slide. The original King Duo Gravis, Holton 180, and Bach 50B2 were set up this way.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
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spencercarran
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Re: TR180 description from eBay

Post by spencercarran »

Well the second valve tuning slide moves a decent amount, so sure, it can be in bE. Before I had a D slide fabricated I would pull the second valve slide on my 180 all the way out, which got almost to an Eb. You certainly could tune it to match the slide positions described on that ebay listing.

That particular horn looks like it's in great shape and the price seems fair IMO. But then I'm biased, big fan of the old Holtons. Eventually you would probably want to split the triggers and get a D slide, which adds to the cost a bit.
WGWTR180
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Re: TR180 description from eBay

Post by WGWTR180 »

I have a TR 180 from 1967, 9 and 1/2 inch flare, and the original valve section sitting here that I recently acquired. My valve section/wrap is identical to the one mentioned above. Here's what I get:

1. 2nd valve slide all the way in with both valves depressed: A Sharp Low E.
2. 2nd valve slide out almost all of the way with both valves depressed: Low Eb in 1st position with playing slide out about 1 inch.
modelerdc
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Re: TR180 description from eBay

Post by modelerdc »

The long e slide on the TR180 and the Bach50B2 were intended to be played in flat E, not E flat. The Idea was that if tuned to E then low B would still be sharp in 7th with both valves. so you you tuned the E valve flat. If you pulled the E valve untill low C was in tune in 6th, then low B would be in tune in a slightly flat 7th. And if you tuned to get low B in tune in regular 7th, then low C would be in tune in sharp 6th. Also you could if desired avoid the poor rollers and Glantz bars and play entire passages with both valves down, the E flat being in flat 1st and so on. Holton and Conn at least made separate E flat slides and well as D slides for those that preferred these tunings.
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BGuttman
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Re: TR180 description from eBay

Post by BGuttman »

The Eb and later D slides for the 2nd valve were a result of pros asking if low C could be moved a little further in to make better fingerings. We eventually learned that a "fast E pull" was not the best use of the 2nd valve.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
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SimmonsTrombone
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Re: TR180 description from eBay

Post by SimmonsTrombone »

I just pulled mine so I could reach the low B and left it that way. I learned a new set of positions for both triggers down just as I learned new positions with the F valve down on tenor.
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