Later Olds Professional Trombone Quality?

[Rich5905]

Did the quality of the Olds professional grade trombones decline in the later years? I have been on the lookout for a Recording with an F attachment and have stumbled across a nice looking one from the mid 70's. I know the bell engraving started getting less intricate during that time, but did the material and build quality of their instruments also decline? I have always tried to stick to Olds instruments prior to 1970, but this horn looks pretty nice and is not too expensive. Assuming it has not been abused, would this be a nice instrument to own and play? I do not have the horn in hand and only have pictures to use to judge it. What do the experts advise?

[Posaunus]

I have an Olds Recording R20 (with F-attachment) made in Fullerton in 1974. Its build quality is excellent. It looks good except for some splotching on the Re-O-Loy red brass bell (appears to be stains, not lacquer loss). The duo-octagonal lower slide is in perfect shape; the upper slide was replaced with a cylindrical tube, also in good condition. The slide moves perfectly and smoothly, with great compression; can't tell any difference from the original. By 1974, Olds had replaced the undersized mouthpiece receiver, so I can use any standard small-shank piece. [This is a big plus!] With a larger mouthpiece (I've even used up to a Schilke 51!), this trombone can make a very broad, symphonic sound; with a smaller piece it's jazz-versatile. The valve, which appears to be on the small side, is not stuffy, and the sound with the F-attachment is quite acceptable. I can see no reason to arbitrarily avoid post-1970 Olds trombones - they were made in the same factory (in Fullerton) since 1954. Perhaps those produced in the declining last 2-3 years (the Fullerton plant closed in 1979) should be examined more closely.

Can you tell that I really like my 1974 Olds Recording? It's on my stand now, ready to go to a rehearsal - I'll be playing a solo for an Easter service with it!

[DougHulme]

I think they made some of their best stuff towards the end but certainly their quality never diminished. If the horn you are talking about is the one on ebay right now - I'd get it before someone snaps it up - I even considered it myself! Kindest... Doug

[jtbandmusic]

Sorry, no. In 1979 I bought an Olds P24G, two valve independent bass. The mouthpiece receiver on this horn was MUCH smaller than any other I have used, and common mouthpieces like Bach and Schilke stuck out much too far. The result was a horn which was unusably flat for any ensemble. So flat people around me would stare. Fine with other horns. I learned to play every note in 1st position with an alternate position. I had a Schilke 58 with the shank modified; it LOOKED like a good fit, but it still played horribly flat.

Regarding build quality: Fit and finish were good, and the slide was great. Ergonomics were awful, causing hand cramps. The trigger levers were made with thin, narrow metal strips which bent easily under the weight of supporting the horn. This was in the days before all the grip gadgets we have now. The finger hook by the mouthpiece receiver was so small I couldn't fit my finger in it.

From dynamics from pp to mf the tone was okay, if a little dull and unresponsive. Just a little louder and the tone became instantly very bright and splatty, with nothing in between.

Sorry, all you Olds lovers, I'm glad you like your horns, but for me, this was the worst horn I ever played... and I've played another Olds, a trigger Recording, which was almost as bad. Sorry, but I gotta be honest.

Sorry again ...
John Thompson
Besson 10-10
Yamaha 646
Conn 60H

[Posaunus]

Sorry, all you Olds lovers, I'm glad you like your horns, but for me, this was the worst horn I ever played... and I've played another Olds, a trigger Recording, which was almost as bad. Sorry, but I gotta be honest.

JT,
Definitely contrary to my experience. I'm more a Conn / King fan than an "Olds lover," but I've played several Olds trombones over the past 50 years, from both Los Angeles and Fullerton factories. My 1974 (Fullerton) Recording R20 and 1974 Symphony O-25 (both with F-attachments) are as good or better than any (in other words, very good), and very robust. (My only gripe about the O-25 is the somewhat awkward ergonomics of the valve lever.) Those two are the newest Olds trombones that I've played.

Olds was known for unusual mouthpiece shanks and receiver sizes. Until the early 1970s, all small-bore Olds trombones had "undersize" receivers which mated best with Olds-shank mouthpieces. By 1974, they had changed the receivers to accept standard small-shank mouthpieces. Similarly, my large-bore (0.554") O-25 has a slightly undersize receiver, but it nevertheless works well (and plays in tune) with large shank mouthpieces such as Schilke, Josef Klier, and Yamaha (especially older pieces).

Note that Zig Kanstul left Olds in about 1972. The (very high) manufacturing standards and the (very skilled) employees he trained lasted for a few years, but by 1976-1977 things had apparently started to go downhill. 1979 was the year the Fullerton factory closed - the end of the line; by then things probably were indeed much worse.

[Elow]

How’s the O-25? I’m meeting someone tomorrow to buy one, can’t find much online about it. What’s the bell diameter?

[Posaunus]

Olds [Symphony] O-25:
Large-bore Tenor trombone w/closed wrap F-attachment,
0.554" bore, 0.565" bore F-attachment, single rotor, 8.5" red brass bell.

[DougHulme]

JTBandmusic - Sorry, all you Olds lovers, I'm glad you like your horns, but for me, this was the worst horn I ever played... and I've played another Olds, a trigger Recording, which was almost as bad. Sorry, but I gotta be honest.

.

I am not particularly an Olds lover I have a lot of trombones (ask the wife!!) the horn I use the most is an Edwards closely followed by a Kanstul. I do have a few Olds in my collection and each and everyone is a great horn. I have exactly the opposite experience to JTBandmusic in that I have a 1978 Olds bass trombone and it does all the things yours didnt and does it well. Of course its an older horn and some of the ergonomics show its age a little bit but not by much. Superb horn... Doug

[Rich5905]

Everyone, thanks for the feedback. Doug, yes it was the one that was on EBay. I did end up snapping it up. Anxiously awaiting for it to arrive. JT, appreciate your comments, but like I said I had been on the lookout for an F attachment Recording and this one looked to be in the best condition of any I had seen so far. Hopefully my experience with this one will be better than yours. I have four different models of Olds Trombones (Ambassador, Special, Super, and a regular Recording) and have been very happy them. This will be my first post 1970 model, I am hoping it will be as nice as my others. I do have to admit I am a little nervous about it being a post 1970 model, but I thought what the heck, I'll take a risk. I am kind of partial to Olds as it was what I learned on many years ago.

Once again, thanks for all of the replies.

Richard

[imsevimse]

I have several Olds horns. They are good. The old ones can play flat especially when A is 442. Guess I should look for a better mouthpiece for them. The more modern Supers, Recordings and Basses from the 70-ies are the best in my opinion. I have a P-22 and P-24G, both made 1974 that are awesome.

I also have a R-20. No problem with that horn other than to match it to a mouthpiece. The last time I tried that horn I used a Schilke 51D small shank but also a small shank Karl Hammond 12L. The low trigger notes work well. I also play the horn with the Yamaha "Nils Landgren" signature mouthpiece, a 11c-ish mouthpiece. Works real well too but then the trigger notes are not as "fat".

/Tom

[Arrowhead]

Yes, the Olds quality declined in later years, but it doesn't mean that all of them declined. Some of them are out of alignment from the factory, but most of them are okay. Att least 2 of the Fullerton era horns I've had were out of alignment from the factory; meaning, the tolerance of seven-thousands of an inch was exceeded when soldering the inner slides.
The Recording F att. is an odd duck. It has unusual balancing characteristics and it takes awhile to get used to. For "professional level" horns- Olds Symphony or Olds Opera-those are great. The mid-70's Special is a low budget quality player. Avoid the .500 bore all nickel plated Studio -it's bell is too thick and therefore sounds a little stuffy.