Why does my 3B suck

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FEWeathers
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Re: Why does my 3B suck

Post by FEWeathers »

+1 on what hyperbolica said.

As for the 3B that J.J. Johnson played, it really rocked my world to learn that he (J.J.) eventually used a 3B bell with a 2B slide, "In fact, a lot of my recordings are with that combination."

See the ITA Journal, Summer 1988 interview of J.J. by Tom Everett, "J.J. Johnson: On The Road Again."
Elow
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Re: Why does my 3B suck

Post by Elow »

Since this thread was just brought up, my shires marshall gilkes came in finally. I like it, it’s a joy to play compared to my 3b which feels like i’m having to force every note out.
Macbone1
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Re: Why does my 3B suck

Post by Macbone1 »

Enjoy, l envy you that Shires.
I enjoy my Jiggs 2B but won't play a 3B again
King Jiggs 2BL
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imsevimse
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Re: Why does my 3B suck

Post by imsevimse »

I played a King 3b/f for many years. It was my first horn that I got from my grandfather, probably in 1977. I used it with a Bach 4C for everything until I bought my first horn with my own money which was a Conn 88h. I used the Conn for classical music and to prepare for Music College. I sold the 3b/f 1983 to one of my first students.

After military service I needed a smaller instrument again and bought a straight 3b and played that horn with a Bach 12C. It was when I studied at the Royal accademy of music - in Stockholm. I had that King 3b with a 12C for big band playing and liked it a lot. I used the horn until Ithe early 90-ies when it had an accident with the bell. I sold it and switched to a King 2b+ and a Bach 6 3/4C I liked the 2b+ better for first parts. I used that horn until 1996.

I played King trombones from 1977 to 1996. I like the power and the bright colours and crisp attacks that I can get out of a King. I also remember I needed to be in good shape to make most out the 3b. If not it could sound too bright and a bit brutal. This could happen if I hadn't practice enough. It was not a very forgiving horn. When I was in good shape the 3b was indeed a very nice horn with good articulations and a very dynamic sound.

/Tom
Last edited by imsevimse on Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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harrisonreed
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Re: Why does my 3B suck

Post by harrisonreed »

Your King 3B didn't suck, I'd bet. Maybe just not the right fit for you
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RobDorsey
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Re: Why does my 3B suck

Post by RobDorsey »

Doug Elliott wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:19 pm From old measurements I have made of .508 bore leadpipes (only one sample of each):
King 3B .423
Bach 16M .412

H8 Burt Herrick style (from Kanstul's list): .422

Bach 16 dual bore (2 samples): .412, .424

The King is actually on the big side. But there's a lot more to a design than just the venturi size.
Hi Doug, I bought a mouthpiece set from you a few years back with a large shank. Good piece. But, on my 3B Silver Sonic (2000 vintage) I'm using an early M21. I have a small mouth and therefore a smaller embouchure and the M21 seems right. Played a small shank Reynolds for years and it was comfy but the wide soft rim on the M21 seems to work. But, to the point, what do you recommend for a SS 3B? Can you set me up one? Reply: [email protected]
Thanks
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BGuttman
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Re: Why does my 3B suck

Post by BGuttman »

Sorry to hijack the thread, but it's great to see you back, Rob.

FWIW, I have been using a LTE with an E2 shank on small bore trombones; which I bet might work for your 3B. I use a 102 rim, but you may want a LT99 if the M21 is a good size for you.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
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harrisonreed
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Re: Why does my 3B suck

Post by harrisonreed »

RobDorsey wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:22 pm
Doug Elliott wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:19 pm From old measurements I have made of .508 bore leadpipes (only one sample of each):
King 3B .423
Bach 16M .412

H8 Burt Herrick style (from Kanstul's list): .422

Bach 16 dual bore (2 samples): .412, .424

The King is actually on the big side. But there's a lot more to a design than just the venturi size.
Hi Doug, I bought a mouthpiece set from you a few years back with a large shank. Good piece. But, on my 3B Silver Sonic (2000 vintage) I'm using an early M21. I have a small mouth and therefore a smaller embouchure and the M21 seems right. Played a small shank Reynolds for years and it was comfy but the wide soft rim on the M21 seems to work. But, to the point, what do you recommend for a SS 3B? Can you set me up one? Reply: [email protected]
Thanks
Rob, I've used the C+/D3 combo for years on my 3BSS and it's wonderful. The B cup also works great.
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Burgerbob
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Re: Why does my 3B suck

Post by Burgerbob »

I use a C+.D2 combo now. D3 was making it woofy.
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
Jimkinkella
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Re: Why does my 3B suck

Post by Jimkinkella »

DE C+ cup and a D3 shank is a solid combo on .508 (Aidan plays too much bass), I couldn't get the D2 to work.

Not a dig on Burgerbob, but the system is just that, his system works differently than some of us regular smaller-bore players.

To respond an earlier comment, it is entirely possibly for a 3b to suck.
I've had a few but only one good one that I sold off to a student.
My best combo to date in that size is a Shires MD+ with a Brassark 32h leadpipe with the above DE parts (and 5G size-ish rims).

ymmv
Andre1966tr

Re: Why does my 3B suck

Post by Andre1966tr »

I ve got the feeling that many of you are compensating embochuree problems with equipment and measure-mania.
Sorry...a good teacher might help..
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harrisonreed
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Re: Why does my 3B suck

Post by harrisonreed »

Andre1966tr wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:14 am I ve got the feeling that many of you are compensating embochuree problems with equipment and measure-mania.
Sorry...a good teacher might help..
That's cool if you like Bach 12Cs. No need to berate people.
Andre1966tr

Re: Why does my 3B suck

Post by Andre1966tr »

berate? Did I hit a nerve? Sorry...
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RobDorsey
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Re: Why does my 3B suck

Post by RobDorsey »

Hey Y'all,
I have been away from trombone for several years playing tenor sax (seemed like a good idea at the time) but a hand condition rendered me unable to continue. So, back to bone. BUT, I'm having a bit of a mouthpiece panic. Since I studied with Neil Humfeld, I played an 88H and Remington mouthpiece. The master required it of all his students. I continued the Remington with a small shank on my 3B but now it feels like I am opening a window and playing the world. I have gone through my collection trying 6 1/2 A and AL, Schilke 47D, 46, Bach 7, 7C, 9, and 12C. I have a couple of pristine King M21s and an M31 and I like the rim and hell, J.J. played one on his 3B. But I also have a like new Reynolds Pro Sterling Delux and it has as good a slide as the 3B and is light and mellow, and on it . . . . wait for it . . . I have settled on that horn and a King 11M. It's an ugly little piece but my high C is easier and more clear and the rest of the register is easy and full.
Opinions???
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BGuttman
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Re: Why does my 3B suck

Post by BGuttman »

Rob -- You still on the fence about which uncle to emulate (Jimmy vs. Tommy)? ;)

If I remember correctly from The Trombone Forum you were drowning in mouthpieces. I'm glad you figured out which of them works for you.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
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RobDorsey
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Re: Why does my 3B suck

Post by RobDorsey »

Hi Bruce,
Not so fast. I've still been in a panic. Last year I had some severe dental issues that resulted in my upper teeth being removed and five implants being put in. These support a solid prosthetic set of teeth that work and look great. However, they are a substantially different shape than my original teeth and produce a bit of an over-bite, something I did not have before. This has completely changed my embouchure and made such pieces as the Reynolds or even 6 1/2 A too large. I have centered in on the 11M, Conn 3A and Bach 12 (not C ) pieces. These are much smaller than the other pieces in my collection but seem to work for me, even in my wonderful Conn 8H.
This year I will have been playing trombone for 62 years. Time to get it right, eh?
Rob Dorsey
Pre-Bebop and Dixieland Jazz player. You Know, Old guy stuff.
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