I would echo your comments. I would say that the 169 is the rarest...only made 2 or 3 years...the 185 maybe 9 years. E185 and TR 185 differences ? Mostly the letters....after the LeBlanc takeover, all instruments had to conform to a new lettering system. Mike Suter would tell you that double valves started quite early with a 269 designation, of which only a handful were made....looked much like early 180 models. Build quality went gradually downhill after the takeover. .... silly little penny pinching economies like the valve check buffer plates going from cast to thin sheet that would bend in a strong wind.btone wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:42 pm "Every 185, E185, and 169 are different from each other. Even the older 180s are each different. Holtons were consistently inconsistent."
Exactly right. Tuning slides that don't interchange, some bells are heavy, some super light. Variations in slide tenons/ receivers make slide interchangeability not a sure thing. Some great horns made, though. As to chronological order- I remember from Trombone Forum threads- 169 made early? to mid 60's, a more orchestral horn. 185E was made next, and prrhaps briefly made. These were reportedly much like the 169 in some cases. The TR185 followed by 1966 or 7?- it looked much the same but was ostensibly less orchestral in nature. Some of these had a 9.5 inch bell, some 10". About the same time dependent valve instruments began to be made which evolved into the 180. I have experience with a 9.5" 180, my first bass, and I still own a good condition TR185 that plays very well, and a rescue 169, a victim of mistreatment that sounds and plays great, against all odds. It must have originally been really incredible, because it is still great.
All Holtons are different...a bit like Bachs....never played two the same....I still have a 169.... total beater...unsellable.. but the best I have owned blow and sound wise... if only they were still in fashion.
Chris
