bass Trombone mpc observation

[Thrawn22]

Is a yeo on the light side weight wise? I've found weight plays a part on mpc/ horn combinations in relation to ease of playing.

No. It's pretty heavy, I'd say like a Greg Black medium weight.

Good to know.

[Bach5G]

So I went and bought a new DE set up. LB114, L, L8. Nice, couldn’t be happier. And, one day, I gave the Yeo a try. Wow! Now I have a couple of great bass trb mpcs.

Too bad I don’t have anywhere to play.

[imsevimse]

When it comes to the extreme low register I have a theory that people with thinner lips can do better on small mouthpieces compared to people with thicker lips. One thing Ive noticed is the technique to play extreme low on a small mouthpiece without having to depend on a raised emboushure seem to be easier for people with thinner lips. I have rather normal lips and have to use a raised emboushure below a pedal Eb with a 1 1/4 G. If I use my largest mouthpiece I can get a solid pedal D but to go lower I have to use a raised emboushure. I have a friend who has extremely thin lips and he has no problem to play down to pedal C on a 1 1/2 even though he does not practice. I have another basstrombone friend who used to be a professional bass trombone player. He can play a basstrombone part on a small tenor with a small tenor mouthpiece. That is extreme. He also has the advantage of having rather thin lips.

/Tom

[FOSSIL]

Tom, I don't think the relationship between lip thickness and mouthpiece size is quite so straightforward ...I've taught a lot of people over the last 45 years and not noticed a direct correlation.

Chris

[Doug Elliott]

I don't think there's any correlation to lip size either.

There are so many other variations in facial structure - length and flexibility of the lip tissue both top and bottom (unrelated to size); placement of the nose and its underlying structure; relative lengths of the teeth vs lips; shape of the curvature of the teeth and jaw structure; size of mouth cavity; size and shape of the tongue.
These all affect how easy or difficult various things will be, and mouthpiece size preference.

[imsevimse]

Tom, I don't think the relationship between lip thickness and mouthpiece size is quite so straightforward ...I've taught a lot of people over the last 45 years and not noticed a direct correlation.

Chris

I do respect your professional experience a lot, Chris

It is only the few extreme low notes I'm thinking of. The ability to play those real low pedals (loud) without any use of the raised emboushure technique. For me that has to do with mouthpiece size. A larger mouthpiece helps me so I do not need to use the raised emboushure as early.

The ability to play loud on the lowest pedals is better (for me) on a larger mouthpiece.

Do players lay off their raised emboushure technique? Chris, have you taught this? That's my struggle. I think it could be good not to change mouthpiece position while playing the lowest pedals but I have not been able to lay off that. My struggle has only helped me to switch better. I move my mouthpiece less on those few low pedals now so that's what' I'm getting better at.

I observed two friends I know who can do the low pedals loud with their normal emboushure. Most I meet can not do them loud at all. A few can do them loud with a change in emboushure. All but me, who move the mouthpiece move up. I'm the only one who do the opposite and move the mouthpiece down. The two who can do them loud without a change of mouthpiece placement have both thin lips. Especially the friend that do not practice very much and is not a professional has very thin lips. I don't think he has ever thought of those lowest pedals as a problem they just comes very natural for him.

/Tom

[Basbasun]

I have (very few) players who can play high or low, or both without (much) practise. Some of them do play pretty much anyway, some did not touch the horn for long time and just pick up the horn and play. They exist. That is true.

I had some students who complayed over their bad high register. Often enough the propblem was that they did not practise enough in the high range, more then some others. The same with low range. Som (very few) did not have topractise much for a good pedal F (contra F) some others did have to practise in that range to have axes to it.
For many players any mpc need lots of practise to get axes to either the low or high range. I use two mpc:s on bass trombone that are in the middle of zices, I have a friend eho plays beautfifully on a mpc the is bigger than any standard mpc there is. He is very sucsefull. It can be done. We all know that 2G is big enouth for some.
The shift have a long history, that works very good for many (actually VERY many) bass players, some player do not have to shift. So? Do what you have to do. For my self, I do practise som of the whole range every day (almost every day to be honest) I practise as low there is pedals with no shift. And with shift. What is shift for you? Some of the best players I met do not take lessons. So as a teacher I do not very often meet those who do not have any problems. Sometimes I do meet those players, when they are interested in for exampel fake tones, multphoncs, splittones or other soecialitys, or just to have a good chat.

[FOSSIL]

Basbasun makes some very good points, as usual. A quality that is never discussed, but varies considerably between individuals is tissue elasticity. The more elastic you lip area, the more easily you will be able to access low notes. Shifts in the low register are primarily but not wholly about allowing the dominant lip to move to the widest part of the rim to assist the slow wide flexible vibration of that structure needed to produce the note. It allows ease of production and greater potential volume.
The downside, as with any break (and higher breaks are different in physical nature but also generate issues) is that it is next to impossible to move smoothly over that break.
I spent many years working to avoid all breaks and can play from pedal F to high F on one setting...it's nice, and makes life a lot simpler but I still use a low shift if I have to play very loud, low pedals.... I think it's fine to shift as an overdrive, as long you can play the low pedals conventionally as well.

Chris

[jonzbonz]

Like Tom I move the mouthpiece down for the low register and up for the high register. I learned from Doug years ago that I need narrow rims with wider ID than some players. Works on tenor and bass for me.

[Basbasun]

Like Tom I move the mouthpiece down for the low register and up for the high register. I learned from Doug years ago that I need narrow rims with wider ID than some players. Works on tenor and bass for me.

Yes we are all individuels and different humans. Actually very few players do move the mpc down for loud low contra tones. Most players move up. The effect is similar. whats right for Tom is not right for me. But I do prefer narrow rims.

I did mix up the up and down, now it is correct. I hope.

[Fridge]

In regards to the shift, George Roberts did this all the time. He could get in and out pretty quickly. Most players that I know of use this if they want really strong pedal notes. Jeff Reynolds refers to different settings in his book. Alan Raph talks about this in his original double valve book.

Fridge