Mouthpiece too large for the horn

[Hobart]

Normally, for jazz playing, I've been using my Conn 2 mouthpiece, which is on the small size. I like it, but my saxophone-playing brother said it was a bit bright, so I figured I should experiment a bit with my Bach 6 1/2 AL that I use for baritone.
The 6 1/2 AL works perfectly fine on my 0.500 bore horns, like my Connquest, but I find that on my valve trombone, it generally doesn't respond as well as the Conn 2.
I'm interested in changing sizes to a 5 or a 5G, because they share a rim with the mouthpiece I use on my large tenor. Should I be worried about the mouthpiece being too large for my equipment? I have an 18H director, a 77H Connquest, and a bell-front baritone, and I don't want to get something that isn't serviceable.

[Posaunus]

From what I've heard, valve trombones are typically more "restrictive" than your standard 0.500" bore slide trombone, so you might be happier with a slightly smaller mouthpiece than a 6½AL (which has a large throat). Lots of options, many available at reasonable used prices. You might even be happy with a Bach 6½A (same cup as a 6½AL but smaller throat) which could be a better match to the valve trombone.

Have fun experimenting!

[FOSSIL]

You have assumed a straightforward relationship between size and darkness. I don't think this is the best way to look at things. Some designs play darker than others. Sometimes A B comparisons can be misleading. I am messing around with small bore trombones during lockdown and am presently trying a mouthpiece that weeks ago I dismissed as being bright and unsuitable.... now I am thinking again and seeing how I adapt to it and so far I am surprised at how this is turning out....it may be a blind ally but what I am saying is we all need to keep an open mind and not jump to conclusions.

Chris

[GabrielRice]

I highly recommend working with Doug Elliott on a set of mouthpieces for you. You can unify the rim size and choose a cup volume and backbore that works best for each horn.

[rmb796]

I agree that Doug Elliot mouthpieces are the way to go, but you might want to try a 51b .

[Doug Elliott]

Small bore valve trombones can feel tight and restrictive, making you think you need more openness somewhere, but what they really need is a shallow cup because the brightness of that helps to center the pitches and even the response. You can certainly get that with a small mouthpiece but if you want to use the larger rim size of your big setup (which will help your overall consistency on every horn), you can combine a larger rim with a shallower cup.

A 51B is a reasonable thing to try but it may not be shallow enough to have the full effect.

[Matt K]

Definitely my experience too. I have an A cup from Doug that I used on my flugabone which is basically a really compressed value trombone.

[imsevimse]

I use a Nils Landgren signature mouthpiece with my "superbone" and that is a good match, also my Bach 6 3/4 C works. I've tried a 6 1/2AL with my King 3B valve trombone and thought that was a bit "muddy" or unclear the 6 3/4 C on the other hand worked fine for me then. I have not tried the King 3B with my Nls Landren yet.

/Tom

[Kingfan]

Try Doug's suggestion. I don't have a valve bone, but I play a .481/.491 dual bore and a .508 bore tenors along with my .547 and my bass and couldn't find a mouthpiece I liked. I worked with Doug Elliott and found something like a Bach 5 works best for me on the two small bores - less restrictive, better range, better tone. Wouldn't work for most people, but it works for me. I now have a Doug Elliott setup with LT101 rim, LT D cup, and D3 shank and am very happy with it.

[Thrawn22]

I have a friend that played a large bore Yamaha with a schilke 59 mpc and bopped. He only considered going smaller for endurance reasons.

I use a Bach 7 for my .500 bore for lead and it can be bright. Before that i used a 6 1/2 al. Conversely, i use a Griego 7 (which apparently is like an 11c or 9) on my .525 horn and it sounds as legit as a medium bore horn can get. A lot of what goes into playing is how we precieve sound to concieve sound.

And valve bone is not the best gauge for brightness for the aready stated reasons.

And your brother is probably not the best person to gauge brightness from a bone since hes a sax player. Sax players tend to bitch about things like sound and volume because sax and other woodwimps despise brass.

[WGWTR180]

In a dream world we would ALL learn to play on a Bach 7C, Bach 5G, and a Schilke 59. But we have a million choices so we hunt. We've all done it at one point. Happy hunting.

[MagnumH]

From my experience, the 5G will overwhelm the horn. In preparation of a DE mouthpiece arriving, I've been practicing on a 5G with my 500/508 dual bore (as it's a similar rim size), and it's not a good fit, tonally. The cup is just too deep. Totally fine for practicing on to get used to the rim size, but not a performance-worthy solution. The 5 might be better results, or even the 4C - and of course YMMV.

[afugate]

I've got an Olds valve trombone. Wonderful sound, but it doesn't like a 6 1/2 AL. It really sings with an Olds 3 mouthpiece.

I appreciate Doug sharing his thoughts about shallow mouthpieces. I prefer larger rims than the 12C sized mouthpieces like the Olds 3, so I may try the horn with an LTC3 that I picked up recently with my DE rim of choice.

--Andy in OKC.

[dukesboneman]

As far as mouthpieces for a valve trombone. I`ve found the opposite to be true. For years I played a Bach 7C on every small horn. I have a King 2B valve trombone with a Nickel tempo bell. It didn`t like the 7C at all. Too bright and edgy. I remember Rob McConnell played a Conn 3 and Brookmeyer played a John Swallow Mouthpiece which was on the bigger end. So I tried a Bach 7 and the horn mellowed out and opened up. It was much easier to play and sounded so much better.