Greg Black MP Cups?

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Nerby
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Greg Black MP Cups?

Post by Nerby »

Okay so I realize that this exact post has probably been created a billion times already but I don't know what magic word to add to my search to find it.

Basically, I wanted to get a Greg Black mouthpiece, but I don't know how to compare the cup depths to something I know. Also the weights are an unknown to me. I know I want ~1.03” rim (so a 4) but I am not sure which depth is similar to what I am using. I currently use a Doug Elliott XT 103 (standard rim) with a G cup and G9 shank. I'm trying to get in a G10 and a G10S to try out - a WIP.

Which piece on the GB naming scheme is around the same depth as the G cup? Also, how heavy are the regular weights? Is it like a Schilke 51/52, or would that be more similar to a medium weight? One last thing, how far do there GB pieces fit into the leadpipe? I ask because, well I'm curious, but also I seem to prefer shorter shanks/shanks that go farther into the horn (such as the 51C4).

Any responses appreciated, I apologize for making this post for the thousandth time here, but I'm itching to try something out. Thanks!
Slydeflex
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Re: Greg Black MP Cups?

Post by Slydeflex »

You can send Greg a Facebook message and he will respond
ZacharyThornton
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Re: Greg Black MP Cups?

Post by ZacharyThornton »

Doug’s G cup is like a 5G cup. That is the same for Greg’s system. In the NY series: no number .XX= GS, .25=GSD, .5= G, .75=GD.
Normal weight is like a Schilke weight. His light weight is like a Bach. Medium is just a bit more heavy than a Schilke.

His mouthpieces fit in like Bach’s. How Schilkes fit depend on the era of the mouthpiece.
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Nerby
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Re: Greg Black MP Cups?

Post by Nerby »

Thank you so much Zachary! You've given me a lot of info, probably enough to piece together exactly which one would suit me best.
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Burgerbob
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Re: Greg Black MP Cups?

Post by Burgerbob »

A regular weight 4G/5G is probably the best place to start.
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
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Nerby
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Re: Greg Black MP Cups?

Post by Nerby »

Okay update for anyone who may stumble upon this:

I went ahead and ordered a GB 4G-5G (regular weight) because I have grown accustomed to spending all my money In a short amount of time and not saving it for, I don't know, my encroaching student loan payments or whatever. :shuffle:

Okay more seriously though, when I get it in I'll make another post about the piece and maybe jot down some observations about it here as I have tried a few lip trombone apertures in my career and it may help someone.. at some point. :lol:

I asked Windy City Trombones Reverb about the depths of the pieces, and this was Kevin's response, which I found quite useful for gauging the sizes in comparison:
Nerby - the 4gsd is going to be slightly shallower than the 4g-5g
Greg calls the 4gsd a medium depth mouthpiece and the 4g-5g medium deep
Schilke b cups are shallow to medium and c cups (which are usually unmarked) are medium to medium deep and d cups are deep
This is also where I got the piece, very easy transaction - I vouch for him.

Something I'm curious about: Greg's sizing chart lists the cup/rim diameter as 26.1mm or 1.032" - but which one is it?? :idk:

Cheers and stay safe to the one individual reading this!! Keep up the good work and keep practicing. :good:
ZacharyThornton
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Re: Greg Black MP Cups?

Post by ZacharyThornton »

Kevin Brown is a good friend and a great guy. I would recommend doing business with him to everyone.
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Nerby
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Re: Greg Black MP Cups?

Post by Nerby »

So an update, and a quick question.

I have had the GB 4G-5G for about a week, and have really been loving it - mostly. It sounds so nice, but it just takes so much work to play. I know that the bore is a big factor, but I really really enjoy the openness that the increased bore offers - and how it makes my horn play. The GB Mouthpiece is a bit unwieldy, and I have lots of trouble in the high register. I think going down a cup size will do the trick, but my question is do I go down to a gsd, or a gs? I'm really uncertain which would work better. I was playing on a DE G cup, and I found it worked well. Which would be most similar to that?
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Burgerbob
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Re: Greg Black MP Cups?

Post by Burgerbob »

GS is probably the closest. You may also want to look into the smaller throats.
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
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Nerby
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Re: Greg Black MP Cups?

Post by Nerby »

Another update, I'm going to see Greg in person on Saturday (his shop is an hour away) to check out all of my options, and to (hopefully) get the best mouthpiece I've ever played on. I love the sound of GB pieces, and I am quite confident now that I know exactly what I want in my 'perfect mouthpiece' - at the moment. I thought the 4G-5G was too open, so I thought I would just go down a cup size or two, but it could be other factors - notably the open throat on his pieces. I called, and he offered to prepare for me some pieces with the Kitzman bore and throat to try out. I will see what I think when I see him in a few days. I'll post another update.
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Nerby
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Re: Greg Black MP Cups?

Post by Nerby »

Alright I saw Greg and tried a whole bunch of pieces. I ended up buying a lightweight 4GSD with .277 Kitzman bore and #1 throat. I actually really loved the lightweight 4GS with regular throat and bore, but I wanted something that would take "less air" and be a little easier to play. The setup I chose is kinda the perfect medium (for me).

I'd also like to mention that while I was there I met Fred Powell who let me test drive a prototype Rotax Valve large bore orchestral tenor produced by SW Matras. It played wonderfully.

I was also offered barbeque. Great people, I recommend seeing Greg in person if you get the chance.
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tombone21
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Re: Greg Black MP Cups?

Post by tombone21 »

Nerby wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:23 pm Alright I saw Greg and tried a whole bunch of pieces. I ended up buying a lightweight 4GSD with .277 Kitzman bore and #1 throat. I actually really loved the lightweight 4GS with regular throat and bore, but I wanted something that would take "less air" and be a little easier to play. The setup I chose is kinda the perfect medium (for me).

I'd also like to mention that while I was there I met Fred Powell who let me test drive a prototype Rotax Valve large bore orchestral tenor produced by SW Matras. It played wonderfully.

I was also offered barbeque. Great people, I recommend seeing Greg in person if you get the chance.
That's funny, I've spent the last week trying to get ahold of Greg to make a lightweight 4GS★. Think I might end up going down there in person if this takes over a month.

Super interested in those Matras horns! I've tested 3 or 4 now, all unique and all great instruments. Do you remember the basic specs of the horn? Was it a narrow or wide slide?
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Nerby
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Re: Greg Black MP Cups?

Post by Nerby »

The horn he gave me to play on had a wide slide. It was all yellow brass, had a modular design, and had a Rotax Valve that he said they customized. The wrap looked akin to the Alessi horns, and the action was.. interesting - the springs were super weak, so it didn't take much effort, but also didn't snap back open super quickly, I'm almost certain that's just a quirk of the prototype model though. It played really nicely. It had super crisp slotting, projected really well, and had a big bold sound - not my cup of tea, but it was a really great player. I didn't really get any photos of the horn, just one where I was holding the horn showing off the interesting scenario I found myself in - in Greg Black's shop, testing mouthpieces and playing a prototype horn that a brass instrument maker handed to me. Was pretty neat indeed.

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tombone21
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Re: Greg Black MP Cups?

Post by tombone21 »

That's awesome, thanks for the info! Would be super interested to try one of those myself.
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