Wedge mouthpieces

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lauriet
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Wedge mouthpieces

Post by lauriet »

I get the logic behind them, but do they provide any advantage ???

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BGuttman
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Re: Wedge mouthpieces

Post by BGuttman »

Snide answer: Maybe, or maybe not. Some people find they help. Others not.
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Bach5G
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Re: Wedge mouthpieces

Post by Bach5G »

I think Dr Dave has a pretty generous trial/return policy.

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Burgerbob
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Re: Wedge mouthpieces

Post by Burgerbob »

I have a bunch right now. THey are very interesting.
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LeTromboniste
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Re: Wedge mouthpieces

Post by LeTromboniste »

I played on one for a while, it does make a pretty noticeable difference. Took me about a few weeks to get used to it but I personally liked the effect overall. It did feel like my corners were getting more involved (they really can't get away with being less than fully involved otherwise you'll have leaks). At the same time it also felt like the sides were freer and flexibility was quite noticeably improved.

On the flip side, focus is a bit different and it took a while to get my tone back to somewhere I could be happy with.

I did find it entirely possible to play that rim on tenor while playing a conventional rim on other Instruments. If anything it made me more conscious of my corners on all mouthpieces.

Clarification: if I was still playing modern trombone I probably would be using it. I stopped using it because I stopped playing modern instruments except for rare, usually last minute occasions. It's not the kind of mouthpiece you can easily go back to at short notice after months or years of not playing it when all the mouthpieces you do play regularly have a more conventional shape.
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Cmillar
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Re: Wedge mouthpieces

Post by Cmillar »

I tried one several years ago.

Hears my ‘controversial’ view on them... every time I picked up my horn it felt different on my face and ‘off-center’.

If I was playing exclusively in an orchestral setting and had plenty of time to prepare for my entrance, then I can see it working for you. But on a jazz gig or wedding where you sometimes have 1 second to pick up your horn and play I didn’t like the mouthpiece at all.

I can see where a lot of trumpet players can like a Wedge, because they play a very ‘center focused ‘ instrument and don’t have as much total body movement as a trombone player which can disrupt embouchure settings.

I was glad to go back to a regular symmetrical rim.

But try one for yourself. But watch for his return policy! They’ll deduct money for anything that doesn’t meet pristine condition in their view and you can’t argue about it.
AndrewMeronek
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Re: Wedge mouthpieces

Post by AndrewMeronek »

For me, Wedges are a big game changer (positively) in terms of endurance.
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Geordie
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Re: Wedge mouthpieces

Post by Geordie »

FWIW, I used a 6.75 Wedge on an Olds Recording, mainly in a soul band and in a 3B+ for big band for three/four years. Helped improve endurance and range quite early on. During lockdown, with time to practice and compare I’ve confirmed my growing suspicions that the rim was probably too narrow for real comfort and there might be better options. Currently trialing a larger rim and different cups from Doug Elliot and will ditch the Wedge soon for the cup/rim combination I settle on, although the ones I’ve tried are all a pretty good fit.
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Jmloudon
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Re: Wedge mouthpieces

Post by Jmloudon »

In the recent past, there was a good year or so where I just could not start notes anywhere on the horn. I bought a Wedge on a whim and it helped something “click” for me. That being said, I think I played it for a month or two and it’s sat on the shelf since then.

I think it’s a great design from the standpoint of really forcing your chops to fall in to the mouthpiece, and it helped me rediscover a lot of things that were happening naturally when I was playing 5-6 hours a day. As others have commented above, it is kind of a pain having to make sure the mp is lined up directly on your chops with the dot in the right place. Quick entrances are strange, for sure.

“Dr Dave” was very responsive to emails and I found his guidance to be helpful for determining what size piece I should try. I believe he knows what he’s doing and is really dedicated to the cause. The return policy is definitely generous and he wants you to like what you buy.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that I think they’re worth an extended trial to get used to it and see what they’re about. Just don’t expect miracles.
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Cotboneman
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Re: Wedge mouthpieces

Post by Cotboneman »

I ordered two of the relatively inexpensive plastic versions of the 61/2AL and 1/12G late last year to test them out, but I have not given them a real test yet. I am not expecting any miracles, but I have not given them a fair hearing yet.
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LeTromboniste
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Re: Wedge mouthpieces

Post by LeTromboniste »

Mine is plastic (Delrin), for the same reason of wanting to try the shape/concept without breaking the bank, and I found it very comfortable on the lips, but, the extreme lightness definitely has an impact on the tone... made it really dark and with tons of core but not colour to it. Kinda dull. I put a brass sleeve/weight on it and it definitely helps. If I'd kept playing modern trombone I would have eventually ordered a brass Wedge and then sold the Delrin.
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Reedman1
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Re: Wedge mouthpieces

Post by Reedman1 »

I’m currently playing a Delrin Wedge 101 rim on an Elliot LT C cup/shank combination. It’s very comfortable, works great, and I like my sound and range. I’m using this combination on a 2B. I don’t have a larger horn to try it on, but I think it would work well.
That said, it took me a while to figure all this out. I have sensitive upper teeth, and conventional rims can get very uncomfortable for me. I tried a lot of different sizes, and I even tried Wedge 100. The 100 was very playable, but it was too small for me and my sound was too stuffy. The larger size fixed that. I have to conclude that if you choose Wedge, be sure to choose the right size. Dr. Dave thinks you may be able to go down a size. I could not.
I have yet to try to use this mouthpiece with plunger for more than a few minutes. I also haven’t had to grab the horn and smack it on my face in a second or less, but I do practice making sure I get the alignment correct and trying to keep my position consistent and stable.
I’m a vote for Wedge.
andym
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Re: Wedge mouthpieces

Post by andym »

Reedman, what size rim do you play on one of Doug Elliott’s rim? I also play an LT 101 and was thinking of experimenting with a Wedge Delrin rim.
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Reedman1
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Re: Wedge mouthpieces

Post by Reedman1 »

andym wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:09 pm Reedman, what size rim do you play on one of Doug Elliott’s rim? I also play an LT 101 and was thinking of experimenting with a Wedge Delrin rim.
It would be an LT101. Doug makes very fine mouthpieces, but because of my sensitive teeth, I find his rims uncomfortable. The wedge is working very well for me.
andym
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Re: Wedge mouthpieces

Post by andym »

Thanks Reedman
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harrisonreed
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Re: Wedge mouthpieces

Post by harrisonreed »

The wedges do not make sense to me, and I read the info on their site about them. Looking at it, I would want to play it rotated 90 degrees from what they say is correct.
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Re: Wedge mouthpieces

Post by Bach5G »

harrisonreed wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:44 pm The wedges do not make sense to me, and I read the info on their site about them. Looking at it, I would want to play it rotated 90 degrees from what they say is correct.
Have you tried one?


The inspiration, by the way, was Jon Faddis.
Last edited by Bach5G on Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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LeTromboniste
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Re: Wedge mouthpieces

Post by LeTromboniste »

harrisonreed wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:44 pm The wedges do not make sense to me, and I read the info on their site about them. Looking at it, I would want to play it rotated 90 degrees from what they say is correct.
Yes that's the way most oval and/or curved rim designs in the past were meant to be used AFAIK (i.e. following the curve of the teeth). The Wedge design is different in that the rim has a "normal" profile only at the far ends of the oval, which are also the most raised points of the rim. So it only makes sense to position these points at your top and bottom anchor points. On the sides of your embouchure, the cup is narrower than between top and bottom edges, and the rim is both further away from you, thinner, and sloping rapidly away from you. That rim shape meant to be on the sides would be extremely uncomfortable if you were to position it at the top and bottom.

The fact that the rim is further away from you on the sides forces you to involve your corners and bring them slightly forward and to the center, otherwise you simply don't get a seal. I suspect it's also partly why they chose an oval cup that is narrower on the sides rather than a circular cup: if the cup was circular the rim would would meet the sides of your embouchure slightly further out towards your lip corners than normal, resulting in a cup that is effectively larger, whereas having the cup slightly narrower makes your lips meet the inside edge of the rim at the same spot as they would on a conventional mouthpiece of the same nominal size.

The fact that the rim it is thinner and sloping away from you at the sides reduces the contact surface between the sides of your embouchure and the rim, and makes it feel almost like there no rim at all there, giving you a much freer feel. It's very weird at first but for some it really improves flexibility. I think it's also the reason they suggest experimenting with one size smaller than you usually play. That your feeling of the rim on the sides is barely existent can allow you to play a smaller rim without feeling more restricted the way it normally might, so if smaller is more efficient to the player (which I remember from previous threads might not be the case for you in particular?), then it allows to move down one size and gain that efficiency without some of the usual drawbacks. Also the upper and lower rims are slightly further apart than on a conventional mouthpiece so one size smaller might actually be closer to your usual anchor points.
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Conn100HGuy
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Re: Wedge mouthpieces

Post by Conn100HGuy »

I don't know if Gen Two Wedges are actually oval shaped, by the "blanks" for both of my Gen Ones are round. (I have a silver 5GS and a Delrin 5GS). If I place the mouthpiece on a table with the rim on the surface and look directly down the shank, I can see that both the body and rim are round. I've also verified the shape with a micrometer.
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Posaunus
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Re: Wedge mouthpieces

Post by Posaunus »

I believe it's the Wedge CUP, not the outside profile that is "oval."

See: https://www.wedgemouthpiece.com/
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Conn100HGuy
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Re: Wedge mouthpieces

Post by Conn100HGuy »

The blanks used for my mouthpieces are perfectly round, inside and out, including the cup. The "oval" is an optical illusion. In fact, the first Wedge I owned was a stock Bach 6 1/2 AL with a "wedged" rim.

This just in from Dr. Dave himself: The rim on the originals was oval, cup was round. Gen 2 has an accentuated oval rim which is more obvious and an oval cup down to the throat.
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