Advantages/disadvantages using same MP for small-bore and large-bore?

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robertyknwt
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Advantages/disadvantages using same MP for small-bore and large-bore?

Post by robertyknwt »

57-year-old old fart amateur here getting back into it after about a decade off. I have two King 2Bs, and right now I'm using one (1939 vintage, bought on eBay cheap, got fixed up very nicely) in a community college jazz band. I also have a 4B (parents bought for me in high school in 1976) which was my only/main axe for years, and which I'd now more reserve for concert bands/orchestras/et al.

Anyhow, I have a Conn 3 mouthpiece which came with my old 2B, but I'm not sure it "feels" best to me. On the large-bore front, the original 6-1/2AL which came with my 4B has lost its plating. I was always weak in the upper register, and have tried a Yamaha 48 with it, but that doesn't "feel" right, either.

I'll search a lot more through the archives etc. for other ideas, but one question: How many of you use the same mouthpiece (or at least the same rim) for both small-bore and large-bore horns? What are the pros and cons of doing so?
Started playing in Yellowknife NT
Currently living in The Village On The Edge Of The Rainforest (metro Vancouver BC)
1976 King 4BF
1939 King 2B
1979 King 2B
On the hunt for my ideal mouthpiece
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Kingfan
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Re: Advantages/disadvantages using same MP for small-bore and large-bore?

Post by Kingfan »

My primary horn for many years was a 4B with Bach 5G. I struggled to find a mouthpiece that worked for me on the small bores (2B and 3B) I picked up until I went with a Bach 5 small shank. According to the spec charts, they both have 1.004 inch rim diameters and medium wide/semi-flat rims. It works for my embouchure, but may not for you. BTW, watch that "old fart" stuff. I got 6 years on ya, you young punk! :tongue:
Last edited by Kingfan on Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing! :D
Greg Songer
King 606, King 3B-F: DE LT101/LTD/D3
King 4B-F: Bach 5G Megatone gold plated
King 2107 bass: DE MB109/MB J/J8 King
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hyperbolica
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Re: Advantages/disadvantages using same MP for small-bore and large-bore?

Post by hyperbolica »

I've been in a similar situation, with taking 10 years off, coming back in mid-life.

I don't use the same mouthpiece for all horns, but I do use the same rim for all tenors, small and large. I have to bump up the rim size for bass. When I used to try to switch from one mouthpiece to another, it took me a long time to make the change. Now I can just pick up whatever horn with whatever mouthpiece. I used to play on either 5g or 52e2. What I play now is bigger in diameter, but shallower than the 52e2.

The advantages are that I used to crack a lot of notes, and I don't do that (as much) any more. Plus, I can get a mouthpiece that fits my face and fits my horn. That's the big thing. So everything feels the same, I just have to adjust the air and articulation styles for different bores.

I use the Doug Elliott system. I have an XT104n rim, and for a 500 bore horn, I use C or D cup, with a 2 or 3 shank. For a 525 I use a E or F cup with a 3 or 4 shank. With 547 I use F or G cup with an 8 shank. For bass I use things in the 1 1/4g range, usually a Ferguson L with approx a 108 size rim. Once I settled on the 104 rim, I found it was easier for me to switch to something bigger than to switch to something smaller. So I don't have any trouble going from tenor to bass, but If I put a Schilke 48 in a 3b, which is a pretty common combo, I'd be all messed up.

If there are any cons to doing it this way, it might be that I get a thick sound on every horn I play. I'm not really sure that's true, and I'm not sure it's a bad thing if it is true.
Vegasbound
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Re: Advantages/disadvantages using same MP for small-bore and large-bore?

Post by Vegasbound »

Take a look at Doug Elliott's system, allows you to find the right rim size for you and adjust the cup and backbore for the horns you are using.

I would strongly suggest have a Skype lesson with Doug, you will find your playing improves
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BGuttman
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Re: Advantages/disadvantages using same MP for small-bore and large-bore?

Post by BGuttman »

If you like the way the 6.5 AL plays on the 4B, you can get that same mouthpiece in large and small shank. Also, the Shilke 50 is about the same size. Some of the Conn 3's are actually about that same size, although the Conn 3 was only available in small shank.

Upper register is the last thing to get back. If you have only been playing a short time you may find that the upper register is bad no matter what mouthpiece you play. Still, a lesson with Doug can help you figure out if the 6.5 is too small.

I'd recommend you work on rangebuilding exercises at first and see if you can make the 6.5 AL work for you. You can cover the rim with nail polish if you are worried about the brass (not everybody is sensitive to bare brass -- old mouthpieces weren't plated at all).

Eventually you may discover that the small trombone works best with a shallower mouthpiece and the large one with a deeper.

For what it's worth, I use the same size rim on most of my tenors (and even alto): Bach 4C, Wick 4BS, Elliott LT102/E/E2 on small tenor; Wick 4BL, Elliott LT102/G/G8 on large tenor. When I want to use the large tenor to cover bass parts I use a Marcinkiewicz 3 (about the size of a 1.5 G).
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
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