Schilke 52E2 Mouthpiece (Trombone)

[jtbtrombonist]

Hello, I am a trombonist currently looking to get a Schilke 52E2. I'm currently playing on a Greg Black Kitzman 5G mouthpiece, and it feels too small. I feel like I'm working harder than I need to on the Greg Black. I would like to hear how this mouthpiece sounds on trombone. If anyone has a quick recording playing on this mouthpiece, could you send it my way?

[Burgerbob]

That's a pretty radical change from the GB mouthpiece- the rim is very, very rounded.

Why not try a Greg Black 4G-5G, 4GS or 4GSD? I wouldn't recommend the 4G (it's... too deep) but the other pieces are pretty great.

[Posaunus]

The Schilke 52E2 pieces have very deep cups. But be aware that there are apparently two different versions of this mouthpiece; older ones are different than newer. One has a large diameter cup of ~25.9mm I.D.; the other a smaller cup ~25.5mm I.D. (more like a 5G). And one has a reasonably large 7.04mm throat; the other a smaller 6.75mm throat. Though some consider it too deep for tenor trombone, I have a bass trombonist friend who uses a 52E2 successfully when he plays tenor!

[hyperbolica]

30+ years ago I used one on my 88h. I'm not convinced it was a great mouthpiece, but we were all in that bigger is better arms race.

I recently bought another one, but for my euphonium. I don't have a GB to compare it to, but I will compare it to a DE104G8 on the small side and a 2g on the large side. I'll do a recording to compare. I'll post the recording later on tonight. I'll write more about it at that time.

[hyperbolica]

Ok, here's the video:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oud25sgj9akj7 ... 7.mp4?dl=0

This was just a quickie recording on my LG cell phone. I was a little surprised at the recording. The last one sounded best to me, but playing, the first one felt best. My chops are a little confused because I've been playing tuba and euph on bigger mouthpieces, and tenor on smaller pieces.

Anyway, the order was DE104G8, 52e2, then 2g.

The 52e2 rim is smaller than the DE, but the cup is much deeper. The 52e2 sounded brighter behind the horn, and I think that carried through in the recording as well. The 2g rim was bigger, but again the cup was shallower than the 52e2, but the 2g sounded significantly darker.

I don't think the 52e2 is a bad trombone mouthpiece. If you are used to a diameter of around 1.00-1.02", the 52e2 may work well for you. I didn't mind the deep cup, but the small rim diameter kind of bothered me. I'm not too sensitive to the rim shape, it seems. The 52e2 rim shape is very much like the 2g, which has a big radius on the outside, but the bite - the inside radius - is smaller / sharper. There isn't much/any flat. The DE is slightly rounded on the top and then small radiuses on the inside and outside.

You can see Doug's comparison chart, which you should take with a grain of salt for real measurements.
http://www.dougelliottmouthpieces.com/s ... chart.html

The combination of smaller rim ID and deeper cup is a little confusing to me, but I think it doesn't sound woofy in comparison to other mouthpieces, in fact, it sounds a little bright.

You might see the rim shapes here: The DE is transparent Lexan, so it might be hard to see. 52e2 is on left, 2g on right.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xuuqq1zxj6ur9ne/rims.jpg?dl=0

[jtbtrombonist]

@Burgerbob, @Posaunus, and @hyperbolica, thank you for taking the time to reply to my question! Your comments are very helpful!

[Matt K]

Oh actually I have direct experience with this situation. I played a 52E2 for about a semester of college for the same reason you did. I was on a 5Gish mouthpiece and felt I was working too hard to get a "dark" sound out of it. I have always been a very "bright" player and the 52E2 did help somewhat. My thought was the deep cup was helping. I had a lesson with Doug that summer and he handed me an XT102N/G/G8 and the combination of the narrow rim and the slightly shallower cup was a great match. I later moved to an XT104N and now I go even shallower, usually defaulting to an E cup, which is akin to the 6.5AL depth. Gives me the most access to colors and is a lot easier to play on the horns I have. YMMV, of course. People have remarkably varying needs and preferences.

[walldaja]

I liked the third one you played.

[FEWeathers]

Does the Schilke have a funnel shaped (V-shaped) cup? Like the Remington pieces for the 88H? And is the rim really 1.00 - 1.02ish? I have a plain old 52, and that rim is in the 1.05 range (way bigger than published specs).

UPDATE: I may have answered my own question re: cup shape. It kind of looks like a deeper 51 in this photo I found on ebay,

[hyperbolica]

The 52e2 I have definitely feels smaller rim diameter than my DE104 and my 2g. The DE chart says it's about 102. The cup is pretty deep, deeper than the 2g. I think its more "cuppy" and less "funnelly", but I don't think that figures into the sound. The 52e2 is surprisingly bright for such a deep piece. Not that it's bright, but it lacks the darkness you might expect.

[FEWeathers]

I liked the way you sound on it!

Yeah, if it was a funnel shape, the brightness wouldn't be as surprising, I suppose. Must be a tight backbore? Wizardry?

[fwbassbone]

Wasn't the 52E2 designed by Tom Beversdorf? I may be misremembering.

[modelerdc]

Yes, I remember the 52E2 was the Beversdorff model. Bach and Giardinelli also made Beversdorff models. I've had a couple of the Giardinelli Beversdorffs and they are different from the the Schilke 52E2. Same very rounded rim, but the Giardinelli Beversdorff was larger in rim diameter, about the same size as the Giardinelli 3GM rim but with a deeper cup though not as deep as the Schilke. The Beversdorff models were the 5GB and 4GB, which were the same as a 5B or 4G but with the Beversdorff style very rounded rim.