Dud Seller on E-bay, UK

[BaritoneJack]

Mods - if this post violates forum policy, please remove.

I've just been ripped off on Ebay (UK) by a seller called clree. He advertised a mouthpiece as follows:

"Eastman 61/2AL Large Bore Trombone Mouthpiece. Condition is "New". He also posted a picture, clearly showing the engraving, 'Eastman 6-1/2 AL', and showing the tapered end, with no signs of any damage (see attached images, below)

What I ordered.jpg

4.jpg

What arrived was not a Eastman mouthpiece, but one made by Arnolds and Sons - and far worse was the fact that it was nowhere near 'new condition', having significant damage to the tapered end (see images), including one outward bulge which would scar the inside of the leadpipe if I pushed it in! I contacted him as follows:

"I received a mouthpiece from you today, but it was not as described. For a start, it isn't an Eastman mouthpiece, but one made by Arnolds & Sons. Further, it is not in 'new' condition, as described in your advert, having significant damage to the end, as can be seen in the photos which I have attached. Can you please get in touch. I have not left negative feedback for you, and I would very much prefer if we can sort this out between us.
With best regards, etc"

His response read:
"This was a genuine mistake on the make but I am not sure what happened about the damage for which I apologise. This is the same as the Eastman would you keep it if I were to refund £5?"
His picture clearly shows an Eastman mouthpiece!! How the hell can it be a 'genuine mistake'?

I replied:
"Re. the mouthpiece; if it was just the make was described wrongly, I wouldn't mind, but the damage to the end is likely to have significant impact on the playability of the mouthpiece, and one edge of it is dented outwards at one point, which could well damage the leadpipe on my trombone, so, no - I'm not prepared to keep it for a refund of £5."

He then asked me to return it for a refund, which I did - expecting that he would refund the money I'd paid for the mouthpiece and shipping to me (£21.85), and repay the £3.20 it cost me to return it. Instead, all I got from him was the £21.85. I sent him the following:
"Thank you for refunding the price I paid for the mouthpiece, but I note that you have not refunded the cost of postage to return the item to you. The outcome is that you still have a mouthpiece for sale, and had your postage charges paid in full, for an item which was not as advertised - i.e., 'condition - new' - and I'm £3.20 out of pocket.
It was obvious when I looked at the end of the mouthpiece that at least one of the dents was not fresh (as corrosion could be seen on it), so this had not happened in transit; also, I think putting such an easily damaged item in the post with only a couple of layers of bubble wrap and a Jiffy bag was risking damage to it. When I returned it, with plenty of packing and in a sturdy box, the postage charge was less than you charged me.
In fairness, I think you should refund my return postage, too."

His response?
"I am sorry that your mouthpiece was damaged in post. I have sent many mouthpieces in Jiffy bags and don’t normally have any issues with them. As to the refund of postage eBay won’t allow me refund the postage only the cost of the mouthpiece."

Basically, "Tough."

As I pointed out to him, from the corrosion which had started on one of the dents, it was perfectly obvious that the damage had not happened 'in the post', but long before he sold me the item.

In hindsight, what I should have done on receipt of the item was to take it up with Ebay, pointing out that it was 'not as described'. Unfortunately, as he asked me to return it, there doesn't seem anything in Ebay's system by which I can get them to do anything about him - well, aside from leaving him heavily negative feedback.

I'm WELL hacked off!!

Jack

[BaritoneJack]

Sorry, I can't figure out how to add this picture to my previous post, but here's a close-up of the end of the mouthpiece I received, showing the severity of the worst dent in the end, and the scuffing on the tapered section, showing that this mouthpiece is definitely not 'new', as claimed by the seller, clree.

Jack

Damage.jpg

[Vegasbound]

You have not been ripped off, he posted the wrong mouthpiece to you and it happens when sending out numerous packages, so the description of the mouthpiece he was selling was correct and just sent you the wrong one so of course the one you received did not match the description

What it’s seems to be is a dispute over postage costs, one that can be resolved have you rung him? His name and phone number are always on his adverts.


I have bought from Clive, and it has always arrived well packaged and as described

[Elow]

Was that £3.20 going towards your coffee? Mistakes do happen, ive shipped a wrong leadpipe before, gotten wrong things in the mail, it just happens. I believe that there shouldve been a shipping label sent by ebay that wouldve been paid for by the seller, if you didnt recieve that then expect to put out £3.20 for shipping.

[Matt K]

Perhaps the UK ebay Is different, but it allows you to dispute through the platform and ebay typically handles that. Have you contacted ebay about the matter? They have pretty good customer support over here in my experience. You may also want to contact PayPal for similar reasons. That said I don’t know how small a sum they will investigate for but I imagine there isn’t a limit.

[BaritoneJack]

You have not been ripped off, he posted the wrong mouthpiece to you and it happens when sending out numerous packages, so the description of the mouthpiece he was selling was correct and just sent you the wrong one so of course the one you received did not match the description

What it’s seems to be is a dispute over postage costs, one that can be resolved have you rung him? His name and phone number are always on his adverts.

I have bought from Clive, and it has always arrived well packaged and as described

Vegasbound - he only refunded the cost of the item and the postage costs of shipping it to me; when I first contacted him, he said he was unable to refund the postage costs of my returning it to him "due to Ebay rules". You may see that as fair dealing; I do not - especially as the item as received did not match what I had ordered, either as to the brand or (more importantly) the condition.

I posted this thread at 1:55pm today; at 7pm, I had a message from him, offering to refund the cost of my returning it to him, and asking how I would like him to send the money. As I couldn't figure out how to do it va PayPal, I suggested either a bank transfer or a cheque. If he had made that offer to me in the first place, I would not have posted this thread.

Jack

[BaritoneJack]

Was that £3.20 going towards your coffee? Mistakes do happen, ive shipped a wrong leadpipe before, gotten wrong things in the mail, it just happens. I believe that there shouldve been a shipping label sent by ebay that wouldve been paid for by the seller, if you didnt recieve that then expect to put out £3.20 for shipping.

Yes, mistakes do happen - but if I make a mistake, then I expect to cover the costs of rectifying it myself, rather than leaving the other party out of pocket.

Jack

[BaritoneJack]

Perhaps the UK ebay Is different, but it allows you to dispute through the platform and ebay typically handles that. Have you contacted ebay about the matter? They have pretty good customer support over here in my experience. You may also want to contact PayPal for similar reasons. That said I don’t know how small a sum they will investigate for but I imagine there isn’t a limit.

I think that, if I'd immediately contacted Ebay to say that the item sent to me was 'not as advertised', Ebay would have done so. Unfortunately, I assumed that the seller would cover the costs of returning the item to him, rather than leaving me out of pocket. My mistake. Despite previously refusing to cover the return postage costs, saying that Ebay rules prevented him from doing so (see his reply in my original post), he has now offered to refund that money. I posted this just after 2pm (UK time) today; he offered me a refund at 7pm (UK time) today. Coincidence? I don't think so.

With best regards,
Jack

[bigbandbone]

Just ask him to post the shipping charges to your PayPal account and leave eBay out of it.

[tbonesullivan]

Ebay is annoying about stuff like this. If you start a return through ebay, and the seller is set up for it, ebay forces them to cover costs.

But not if the seller starts a case with them. When you win an ebay case and they will issue you a refund, unfortunately return shipping will not be covered on that. It sucks.

[Vegasbound]

You have not been ripped off, he posted the wrong mouthpiece to you and it happens when sending out numerous packages, so the description of the mouthpiece he was selling was correct and just sent you the wrong one so of course the one you received did not match the description

What it’s seems to be is a dispute over postage costs, one that can be resolved have you rung him? His name and phone number are always on his adverts.

I have bought from Clive, and it has always arrived well packaged and as described

Vegasbound - he only refunded the cost of the item and the postage costs of shipping it to me; when I first contacted him, he said he was unable to refund the postage costs of my returning it to him "due to Ebay rules". You may see that as fair dealing; I do not - especially as the item as received did not match what I had ordered, either as to the brand or (more importantly) the condition.

I posted this thread at 1:55pm today; at 7pm, I had a message from him, offering to refund the cost of my returning it to him, and asking how I would like him to send the money. As I couldn't figure out how to do it va PayPal, I suggested either a bank transfer or a cheque. If he had made that offer to me in the first place, I would not have posted this thread.

Jack

As I said sending the wrong mouthpiece was human error, and a simple phone call resolved the issue one you could have easily made as all his contact details are on every advert he places.

Had you made the call, you may have been more understanding about his “human error” but good to know that your issue has been resolved.

[imsevimse]

I once bought a used leadpipe from ebay. I payed everything with PayPal including tax,customs and shipping. After that the order was cancelled because the item was already sold out??? I only got money back for what I had paid for the item. I do not know what happend to shipping, tax and customs. I had no clue what to do so I did nothing. Since I was on hunt for that leadpipe I continued to search on ebay. What I found strange was that the seller did not remove the leadpipe. I searched for that same leadpipe for over a year and only found the one listed in his shop and I think it still is on his page and for sale??? I would never dare to buy that item or any item from him again. In fact it has made me more careful. I do not know if the shipping we pay reach a seller or not. I think thease fees that noone thinks is their responsibility is something that needs to be solved. Who is responsible to cover a sell that has these faults? Today it seems it is the buyer. Until I know what to do in a similar situation I do not buy used items from ebay anymore I only buy from reputable stores that I trust, but I'm lucky to have bought all the used trombones I want. I had done more than 40 successful transactions until that happened. In this case shipping and customs was maybe $15 but if it is a trombone then shipping, tax & customs could be more than a third of what I payed.

/Tom