Starting back playing large bore after 20 years

[slidingaround43]

Good day, I am planning on acquiring a large bore (.547) horn again soon to prepare for a wind band audition. I last played a Bach 5g on a Bach 42BO way back in 2000 at the ITA conference in Potsdam, NY. I then changed majors and just kept a couple of small bore horns with 6 1/2 AL's. As a kid, I had transitioned from a 6.5 AL to the 5g when I began college. I liked the 5g and had a much fuller sound, but struggled a little in the high register, which wasn't an issue on the 6.5 AL. I realize it could have been airstream issues, but I didn't lack for breath capacity back when!

As I begin to play a larger horn again, I'd love to hear opinions on mouthpieces that work well these days for wind bands, or if sticking with a standard 5g seems like the best path forward.

[BGuttman]

Nothing wrong with a 5G or 6.5 AL. Or any of a number of comparable sized mouthpieces. I would suggest playing on what you have, and playing your audition to the best of your ability.

[Posaunus]

Nothing wrong with a 5G or 6.5 AL. Or any of a number of comparable sized mouthpieces. I would suggest playing on what you have, and playing your audition to the best of your ability.

Bruce is right. Changing mouthpieces will not help you win the audition. Practice on whichever one (of the two you already have) is most comfortable, and play your best. Good luck!

[Trombo]

I agree with the previous posts, but why would you buy a large bore trombone for a wind band? Large bore is needed in a symphony orchestra. In a wind band, the sound of a large bore trombones merges with the sound of euphoniums, which are not found in a symphony orchestra. Denis Wick recommended using a medium bore trombone in a brass band for a brighter and more characteristic trombone sound and Bach 6 1/2AL, 5GS or DW 6BS, 5BS, 4BS mouthpieces.

[slidingaround43]

I agree with the previous posts, but why would you buy a large bore trombone for a wind band? Large bore is needed in a symphony orchestra. In a wind band, the sound of a large bore trombones merges with the sound of euphoniums, which are not found in a symphony orchestra. Denis Wick recommended using a medium bore trombone in a brass band for a brighter and more characteristic trombone sound and Bach 6 1/2AL, 5GS or DW 6BS, 5BS, 4BS mouthpieces.

I have another thread specifically requesting feedback on what you stated in regards to what fits in the scenario I'm looking at. Perhaps you're right. I did play through college in concert band, wind band, and orchestra using my Bach 42BO, surrounded by other large bore tenors. I never, in those times, felt like my sound was getting lost with the euphs even on my large bore. I'll admit, I haven't played a medium bore ever, but never had one to try. I know the stark contrast between small and large tenors with regards to brightness and focus, but I always felt the same way about the euph sound vs. the sound of even a large bore trombone was the same stark contrast. In fact, I was just watching trombone ensemble videos yesterday and came across one with a single euph included that completely changed the dynamic of the group due to it's depth of sound vs. the large bore tenors. To my ear, it's night and day, but my ear is old and unpracticed these days, so I appreciate your advice and will continue to absorb all of the information I can.

[atopper333]

I am currently in sort of the same situation you are. I hadn’t played since 2006ish, so not as long but still 15 years.

I have both a Conn 88H and Bach 36BO. I just started playing in a small church ensemble and find that for parts and endurance I am so much more comfortable with the 36 with a Denis Wick 6bs. I get great range, good endurance for my current skill level, and I can blend very well.

While I do love the sound of my Conn, I got a lot of work to do with it to get it where I want it! Im currently using a 6 1/2 AL and a Conn Remington mouthpiece. At first it was frustrating to me as I used to play a Holton TR158 and could fill that horn up with no problem. Then I gave myself a little grace and realized it took a lot to get there and just to keep at it.

If it would be at all possible…I’d try to play both a 36 and a 42 before buying one. I think you’ll find out pretty quick which one you’re more comfortable with. What works for me will be of course different for you. My father was comfortable jumping right back on that TR158 after a 35 year lay off…so I would think to echo the advice of so many others here and suggest to try it possible before taking the plunge.

Best of luck on your audition and great to have you getting back in to it!

[SwissTbone]

I agree with the previous posts, but why would you buy a large bore trombone for a wind band? Large bore is needed in a symphony orchestra. In a wind band, the sound of a large bore trombones merges with the sound of euphoniums, which are not found in a symphony orchestra. Denis Wick recommended using a medium bore trombone in a brass band for a brighter and more characteristic trombone sound and Bach 6 1/2AL, 5GS or DW 6BS, 5BS, 4BS mouthpieces.

Unfortunately I think Denis Wick's recommendation is outdated. I have yet to see a medium bore in any serious wind or brass band. Large bore has won the battle long time ago.

In brass bands where you often "compete" with very good - and loud - euphonium players you'll have no issue being bright enough even with a large bore. All other instruments being much more conic than the trombone.

[Vegasbound]

After not playing for 20 years, in many ways you are a beginner again, your also playing for fun so pick whatever you want, I would suggest having some lessons to help speed your return.

[hyperbolica]

When I returned to playing after a decade off, I came back on smaller equipment. The stigma that serious players only play 547 is I think harmful to many groups of players. For wind band, you can effectively use anything from 508-547. I play predominantly 525. I only play 547 when a low (not bass) part comes up. Some players get away with 500 bore or even smaller.

Mouthpieces are another thing that people from afar cannot prescribe for you. The best thing is to get a teacher, and let them guide you. The next best thing is just to try a lot of stuff. Take a bottle of spray alcohol and a mouthpiece brush and test a bunch of friend's mouthpieces. The only way to see what works is to try it. 6.5al is a great place to start, regardless of what bore you're using. You may want to adjust up or down, depending on sound and feel.

[atopper333]

This medium bore thing does seem to come up a great deal on the forum…maybe a take from an economical perspective?

We have .525 ‘Professional’ grade offerings from Bach, King, Shires, Rath, Butler, and Yamaha. So there must be a market for the horns if they are being produced i. Decent quantities….

Negating medium bore horns is kind of the equivalent of when someone says “I don’t know why they put another hotel in this town right here.” I’m sure the large hotel conglomerate didn’t just make a multi-million dollar decision without doing their homework. Is it the right tool for every job…no, but it does have its place…

I’d again say try a few things out…maybe the large bore is for you right now, maybe not. I just think it’s more of a personal decision as to how you sound vs. what someone else thinks you should be playing. Yes I understand some ensembles have equipment requirements…which is obviously a great consideration, but if that is not the case, go with what you sound the best and get the most enjoyment out of playing.

[Trombo]

I agree with the previous posts, but why would you buy a large bore trombone for a wind band? Large bore is needed in a symphony orchestra. In a wind band, the sound of a large bore trombones merges with the sound of euphoniums, which are not found in a symphony orchestra. Denis Wick recommended using a medium bore trombone in a brass band for a brighter and more characteristic trombone sound and Bach 6 1/2AL, 5GS or DW 6BS, 5BS, 4BS mouthpieces.

Unfortunately I think Denis Wick's recommendation is outdated. I have yet to see a medium bore in any serious wind or brass band. Large bore has won the battle long time ago.

In brass bands where you often "compete" with very good - and loud - euphonium players you'll have no issue being bright enough even with a large bore. All other instruments being much more conic than the trombone.

The problem is that in colleges and conservatories everyone plays the large bore, preparing to become a symphony musician. Most of them fail to become symphonic musicians, at best they find work in brass or wind bands, but continue to play the large bore because they have become accustomed to this size over the years of study. Therefore, we see the predominance of large bore in brass and wind bands.
In addition, for many, this is the only trombone that they play everywhere: jazz, big band, brass band, brass quintet, etc. They don't pay attention to the fact that different genres of music require different trombones. Denis Wick wrote about this, recommending a small bore for jazz, a medium bore for a brass band, and a large bore for a symphony orchestra. .

[elmsandr]

The problem is that in colleges and conservatories everyone plays the large bore, preparing to become a symphony musician. Most of them fail to become symphonic musicians, at best they find work in brass or wind bands, but continue to play the large bore because they have become accustomed to this size over the years of study. Therefore, we see the predominance of large bore in brass and wind bands.
...

Not sure about this as the exact cause. At least, not here in the US. I currently play in a community group that had 7 trombones last night. 5 Large tenors, 2 basses. Two of the tenors had those instruments in college, neither stepped a foot near the trombone professor's studio nor played anywhere near a symphony orchestra. The others bought them as adults BECAUSE THEY WANTED THEM. They saw the offerings and maybe chose them because of that symphony training pipeline, but certainly not because they studied for it and weren't able to break in to the field.

Within my realm of observed friends, I find that those that play a large bore as an adult tend to do so because they want to, not because they tried and failed at symphony musician... And perhaps more dramatically, the folks that were trying to be symphony players seem to be more likely to not currently play trombone, or if they do bring a different horn that may be more stylistically appropriate.

Cheers,
Andy

[Trombo]

When talking about "serious" wind or brass bands, SwissTbone probably meant professional bands. This is how I understood it, so I explained how professional musicians get into professional wind or brass bands. For amateurs, of course, everything is different. Everyone chooses what he likes best.

[SwissTbone]

When talking about "serious" wind or brass bands, SwissTbone probably meant professional bands. This is how I understood it, so I explained how professional musicians get into professional wind or brass bands. For amateurs, of course, everything is different. Everyone chooses what he likes best.

Here in central Europe I'm actually not aware of any professional Wind or Brass Band. Sure, some professional players play in those bands, but mostly they are very good amateurs. And just to make clear what I mean with "serious" bands:
https://youtu.be/IVC21SFxLOI

There are some exceptions, but this band consists of 99% amateurs. Heck, even the MD is an amateur by definition. Those players are really accomplished and I can promise you, the trombone players never went near the symphony orchestra world. They play on large bore instruments because they give them the sound they need for that kind of playing.

But to get back on topic:

Good day, I am planning on acquiring a large bore (.547) horn again soon to prepare for a wind band audition. I last played a Bach 5g on a Bach 42BO way back in 2000 at the ITA conference in Potsdam, NY. I then changed majors and just kept a couple of small bore horns with 6 1/2 AL's. As a kid, I had transitioned from a 6.5 AL to the 5g when I began college. I liked the 5g and had a much fuller sound, but struggled a little in the high register, which wasn't an issue on the 6.5 AL. I realize it could have been airstream issues, but I didn't lack for breath capacity back when!

As I begin to play a larger horn again, I'd love to hear opinions on mouthpieces that work well these days for wind bands, or if sticking with a standard 5g seems like the best path forward.

Check out what pieces your band played in the last years. The repertoire should give you a good clue about what instrument will be the most appropriate.

I'd love to see more .525 instruments in wind bands and smaller bass trombones. But if your band plays the heavy symphonic wind band repertoire, you'll have a hard time on a medium bore trombone I think. A 5G is a safe choice for a mouthpiece if it fits your face.

[MStarke]

Here in central Europe I'm actually not aware of any professional Wind or Brass Band. Sure, some professional players play in those bands, but mostly they are very good amateurs. And just to make clear what I mean with "serious" bands:
https://youtu.be/IVC21SFxLOI

SwissTbone,

If I don't totally mess up now - from my knowledge not only in Germany, but also in quite a few other European countries there is a number of professional wind orchestras/bands, typically, but not only related to military or police.
Professional meaning that (a majority of) players have gone through studying their instrument on a professional level.
E.g.
https://www.saechsische-blaeserphilharmonie.de/de/
https://www.bundeswehr.de/de/organisati ... bundeswehr
https://www.obrassoconcerts.ch/kuenstle ... lgian-navy

Some of them are really great concert orchestras.
From what I know (having some friends playing in these orchestras) and see, they typically play regular orchestral equipment, meaning large bore trombones. Sometimes even German trombones and German rotary trumpets