curious about where lime comes from

Post Reply
timothy42b
Posts: 1467
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:51 am
Location: central Virginia

curious about where lime comes from

Post by timothy42b »

The ultrasonic thread talked a little bit about various deposits.

We all know some of those deposits seem to be lime. They look like it, they dissolve in acid, I haven't questioned it.

But where would that come from? Condensation seems unlikely, and while trombonists do sometimes use tap water, those same deposits appear on euph, tuba, trumpet, etc.

Is there enough in our spit?
User avatar
harrisonreed
Posts: 4488
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Contact:

Re: curious about where lime comes from

Post by harrisonreed »

User avatar
JohnL
Posts: 1563
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:01 am
Contact:

Re: curious about where lime comes from

Post by JohnL »

It's not just spit. When we play, we exhale droplets of moisture, which contain various minerals. Some of those droplets end up staying in the horn. When the water from those droplets evaporates, it leaves behind the minerals.

There's water vapor in the air we exhale, too, but that's different from droplets. Droplets are small bits of liquid water; water vapor is a gas (though it can condense into droplets under the right conditions).

If I were to take a wild guess as to the composition of the mineral deposits inside a brass instrument, I would expect them to resemble dental calculus (tartar) with the addition of some oxides of copper and zinc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculus_ ... omposition
User avatar
elmsandr
Posts: 957
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:43 pm
Location: S.E. Michigan
Contact:

Re: curious about where lime comes from

Post by elmsandr »

harrisonreed wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:47 am Trees, I thought?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lime_(fruit)
I thought that you get one with a coconut?

Let me call my doctor friend,
Andy
Posaunus
Posts: 3424
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:54 pm
Location: California

Re: curious about where lime comes from

Post by Posaunus »

Most of us use water mist to lubricate our slides. (Not so for euph, tuba, trumpet, etc.) If we use tap water for our spray, and the water is "hard" (high mineral content – mostly calcium & magnesium) as it is where I live, the evaporated water will leave mineral deposits on the slide, which can be very difficult to remove. Once I discovered that, I switched to using distilled water for my slide spray. I bought a gallon of distilled water 4 or 5 years ago for ~$1.25. It's only about half empty. My slides (which I do swab and wipe clean regularly) no longer accumulate these deposits. That distilled water has been one heck of a bargain! :good:
Elow
Posts: 1791
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:18 am

Re: curious about where lime comes from

Post by Elow »

I thought lime was just a broad name for gunk because it’s kind of green...
Posaunus
Posts: 3424
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:54 pm
Location: California

Re: curious about where lime comes from

Post by Posaunus »

Lime: a solid that consists of calcium oxide often together with magnesium oxide.
Doubler
Posts: 368
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:56 pm

Re: curious about where lime comes from

Post by Doubler »

elmsandr wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:58 am
harrisonreed wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:47 am Trees, I thought?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lime_(fruit)
I thought that you get one with a coconut?

Let me call my doctor friend,
Andy
Clever! I like it.
Current instruments:
Olds Studio trombone, 3 trumpets, 1 flugelhorn, 1 cornet, 1 shofar, 1 keyboard

Previous trombones:
Selmer Bundy, Marceau
timothy42b
Posts: 1467
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:51 am
Location: central Virginia

Re: curious about where lime comes from

Post by timothy42b »

Elow wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:05 am I thought lime was just a broad name for gunk because it’s kind of green...
Sometimes it probably is.

I'm referring to the hard whitish deposits that look something like the bottom of a teapot ends up.

They don't come off easily.

The water vapor we breath into the horn that condenses should be pretty close to distilled water, i would think, and not leave lime. Our saliva that gets aerosolized as we blow past wet mouth surfaces would have some. I suspect more of what we let out the water valve is the saliva but I don't know how you would measure.

In the times of COVID it would be nice to know. Some people get more spit than others, and it may be that they just generate more saliva in the mouth that gets grabbed by the air stream. I have a friend who plays recorder with me sometimes, and he plays amazingly dry. Most of us get a burble from the recorder bore getting wet and we have to clear the windway, but he just plays on and on.
User avatar
Splendour
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:05 am

Re: curious about where lime comes from

Post by Splendour »

I know I produce more moisture then most players as I generate a lot of heat when I play and my body likes to dump that excess heat through respiration. I live in an area with soft water and haven't noticed any limescale build up in my instruments over the years.
marccromme
Posts: 325
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:03 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Contact:

Re: curious about where lime comes from

Post by marccromme »

Short answer: it comes from your body.
tbonesullivan
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:06 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: curious about where lime comes from

Post by tbonesullivan »

There are minerals in saliva, a small amount of which end up going into the instrument. After lots of this, you can get buildup.
David S. - daveyboy37 from TTF
Bach 39, LT36B, 42BOF & 42T, King 2103 / 3b, Kanstul 1570CR & 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612 RII, YBL-822G & YBL-830, B&H Eb Tuba, Sterling 1056GHS Euphonium,
Livingston Symphony Orchestra NJ - Trombone
Post Reply

Return to “Maintenance”