Cleaning a very dirty and old instrument

Post Reply
JesusVicente
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:38 am
Location: Vigo (Spain)

Cleaning a very dirty and old instrument

Post by JesusVicente »

Hello mates, I'm about to receive a King 4b trombone. I know that instrument has been played by many children,
with very bad conservation, many years stacked in storage, etc. I know it even smells really bad I do not know what ... But your hand is smelly after touching it.

I've heard about submerging it in apple cider vinegar or hot milk ....

You recommend me how to clean it and get it ready?
Thank you!
User avatar
BGuttman
Posts: 5891
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:19 am
Location: Cow Hampshire

Re: Cleaning a very dirty and old instrument

Post by BGuttman »

First step would be a nice bath. In warm (not hot) water; perhaps 40-45 C (105-115 F) water with some good dish soap. Use a snake to scrub the inside of the outer and inner slide. Maybe even the bell section. Rinse well and see if you got most of the gunk that is causing the bad smell.

Get rid of the case. It's probably full of mildew that is causing the bad smell. Putting the cleaned trombone back in that case can undo everything you achieved with the bath. It might be possible to de-mildew the case if you can find somebody who can ozone treat it. I've heard of people putting the case inside a car being ozone treated as part of a body repair.

If you still are having some odor problems, have a Tech give it an ultrasonic clean.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
User avatar
Kingfan
Posts: 1132
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:32 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Cleaning a very dirty and old instrument

Post by Kingfan »

There are music stores that do a chemical clean on horns, and if one is available near you that might be a good way to clean it with out damaging it. If you do it yourself, I suggest the dish soap and warm (not hot) water method. Let it soak a while before snaking it out. It may take multiple baths. I agree with the other poster that the smell may be the case having mold or mildew. Great horn, worth cleaning and bringing back to life. Good luck!
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing! :D
Greg Songer
King 606, King 3B-F: DE LT101/LTD/D3
King 4B-F: Bach 5G Megatone gold plated
King 2107 bass: DE MB109/MB J/J8 King
mrdeacon
Posts: 968
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 2:05 am
Location: Los Angeles, California

Re: Cleaning a very dirty and old instrument

Post by mrdeacon »

I suggest doing what the above two already said. Give it a bath, use dish soap. If it still ends up being funky or is no longer funky but has build up you can't seem to clean out then that's the time to take it to a tech for a chem clean.
Rath R1 2000s, Elliott XT
Bach 42 1974, Elliott XT
Holton 169 1965, Elliott LB
Minick Bass Trombone 1980s, Elliott LB
AndrewMeronek
Posts: 972
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:09 pm
Location: Detroit area
Contact:

Re: Cleaning a very dirty and old instrument

Post by AndrewMeronek »

A mild metal corrosion cleaner like Brass-O can help a lot, too, if the soap bath doesn't do the trick. Just make sure the cleaner you use is rated specifically for the metal you apply it to. Some can strip things like silver plating.
“All musicians are subconsciously mathematicians.”

- Thelonious Monk
User avatar
elmsandr
Posts: 957
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:43 pm
Location: S.E. Michigan
Contact:

Re: Cleaning a very dirty and old instrument

Post by elmsandr »

Not brass-o. Maybe Wright’s Brass polish if necessary. BrassO has abrasives in it, not good for most places on a trombone.

Neither of these are good for lacquer, but if there isn’t any lacquer that’s not a problem.

Cheers,
Andy
Bonearzt
Posts: 715
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:40 am
Location: My Dungeon of Hell....Actually Texas
Contact:

Re: Cleaning a very dirty and old instrument

Post by Bonearzt »

I'd say avoid any kind of warm water and Brasso. Some older formulations of Brasso contained ammonia which is really bad for brass. A soak in room temp water with some dish soap and maybe baking soda will lessen the smell, and leave the case open in direct sunshine for a day or two, then sprinkle liberally with baking soda and again let sit for a couple of days & then vacuum.

The best thing for the outside of lacquered horns is Lemon Pledge furniture polish and a soft terry cloth towel!

Eric
Eric Edwards
Professional Instrument Repair
972.795.5784

"If you must choose between two evils, choose the one you haven't tried yet."
"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud." -Sophocles
User avatar
bellend
Posts: 216
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:08 am

Re: Cleaning a very dirty and old instrument

Post by bellend »

I would listen to Bonearzt, he knows what he's talking about.

To add my two cents worth once you've got the horn cleaned out as discussed you could try putting some diluted kettle descaler in to the outer slide and let it cook for an hour or so, then thoroughly rinse with clean water and a snake brush and start wiping out with a cleaning rod wrapped in cloth. You will be doing this for a while but it's worth it in the long run.
This process breaks down the layer of crud that you can't get to in the outer slide and may result in the action feeling a bit scratchy at first but it will soon settle down again once your lube of choice oozes in to all the nooks and crannies again. When I was working with Mick Rath this was the standard treatment we gave all slides in for service/ overhaul.

FWIW

BellEnd
JesusVicente
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:38 am
Location: Vigo (Spain)

Re: Cleaning a very dirty and old instrument

Post by JesusVicente »

Bguttman, Kinfan, MrDeacon, AndrewMeronek, elmsandr, Bonearzt & Bellend: Thank you very much for your quick and great answers.

I got the horn yesterday and wash it on warm (but not hot) water with dish soap. After thay, I used baking soda too. The smell has almost disappeard, maybe I repeat the treatment next week. About case, yep, good remark about not using it again, I checked it and it probably is the cause or it is infected with the odor source. I will put it to sun light as Eric said.

As the slide doesn't run well, I put water with ketter descaler and cleaning it after with a rod wrapped in cloth. It improved it, but despite it seems that there is no dent, it is really hard, especially the first section when I insert it when mounting it. After descaling it seems a bit better.

Thanks very much you all! Best wishes
Posaunus
Posts: 3424
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:54 pm
Location: California

Re: Cleaning a very dirty and old instrument

Post by Posaunus »

JesusVicente wrote: Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:27 am As the slide doesn't run well, I put water with ketter descaler and cleaning it after with a rod wrapped in cloth. It improved it, but despite it seems that there is no dent, it is really hard, especially the first section when I insert it when mounting it. After descaling it seems a bit better.
I suggest now taking the trombone to a good tech for slide realignment and chemical cleaning. Unless it is otherwise badly damaged, the results should be a dramatically better slide. And have the tech check out and tune up the rotary valve - probably also in worse shape than you think.

Good luck!
User avatar
ghmerrill
Posts: 494
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:41 pm
Location: Central North Carolina

Re: Cleaning a very dirty and old instrument

Post by ghmerrill »

A few years ago when I got my 1924 Buescher tuba, I cleaned it thoroughly. I doubt that it had ever been cleaned. On that basis, I can advise that you should not regard this as a one-time effort ... or a two-time effort ... or ... It's amazing how much gunk can get built up over decades, and how much time it takes to soften it up and get it out. I use both the blue Dove detergent when I clean my instruments, and also (in more extreme cases) 409. But for old instruments, it really takes repetition. In the case of my 90+ year old tuba, it took about five times to get it thoroughly clean. Soaking in warm water with detergent helps, as does using a snake/brush. A trombone would be a lot easier than the tuba, but you can't imagine (without experiencing it) how much hardened gunk may be in your horn.

By the time I was finished, I discovered that the receiver on that tuba did not in fact fit something close to a small shank mouthpiece, but did take what's called the Old European shank tuba mouthpiece (roughly the size of a bass trombone large shank). There was so much crap in the receiver that cleaning it several times changed the fit of the shank that much.
Gary Merrill
Wessex EEb tuba
Mack Brass Compensating Euph
Amati Oval Euph
1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba
Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone
DE LB K/K10/112 Lexan, M&K GR Nickel leadpipe
1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Bach 12c)
Post Reply

Return to “Maintenance”