Do Bach 16/12/8 slides have same tenons?

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Bach5G
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Do Bach 16/12/8 slides have same tenons?

Post by Bach5G » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:29 pm

That is, would Bach 16/12/8 slides all fit the same bell section?
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Burgerbob
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Re: Do Bach 16/12/8 slides have same tenons?

Post by Burgerbob » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:31 pm

Yup.
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Re: Do Bach 16/12/8 slides have same tenons?

Post by tbonesullivan » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:51 pm

Also, as far as I know, all Bachs use the same size receiver nut, with the same threads. It's the tenon and interior receiver dimensions that are different.
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baileyman
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Re: Do Bach 16/12/8 slides have same tenons?

Post by baileyman » Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:20 pm

I had thought 16M tenons were a bit larger, but I just slipped one into a NY8 and it fit fine.
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Re: Do Bach 16/12/8 slides have same tenons?

Post by Burgerbob » Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:29 pm

6 up until and not including the 34 are the same, as far as I know. 34 and 36 have their own size(s?) and then the large ones after that are all the same.

I'm sure there's some one-off exception.
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Re: Do Bach 16/12/8 slides have same tenons?

Post by bimmerman » Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:50 pm

Yes and no. Yes, in that they are supposed to, and No, in that Bach manufacturing is a huge variable.

Of my 8, 9, 16, Corp. 16M, and 90s. 16M slides, they are all interchangeable. However, the 90s 16M slide (and bell) do not truly fit the other bells (and slides). The tenon/receiver lengths (and diameters! or maybe just tapers) are subtly different just enough to where thread engagement is poor and the whole assembly is either super loose or super tight depending on the slide.

Why, I have no idea. Bach consistency I guess.

My understanding is that the 36 shares a tenon with the small bores but I don't own a 36 to check against. For sure the 42/50 is its own size vs the 36 and also vs the small bores, I just don't recall whether 36 and <16 are the same.
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Re: Do Bach 16/12/8 slides have same tenons?

Post by mrdeacon » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:19 pm

Ooof. This thread is rough. 3 different answers and only one of them is right!
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Re: Do Bach 16/12/8 slides have same tenons?

Post by Bach5G » Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:44 pm

mrdeacon wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:19 pm
Ooof. This thread is rough. 3 different answers and only one of them is right!
Which one is right?
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Re: Do Bach 16/12/8 slides have same tenons?

Post by mrdeacon » Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:59 pm

Bach5G wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:44 pm
mrdeacon wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:19 pm
Ooof. This thread is rough. 3 different answers and only one of them is right!
Which one is right?
Sort of everyone haha.

Burgerbob was the one who got all of it right.

6, 8, 12, 16 are all interchangeable. 36 is larger than the small tenors but smaller than the bass tenon. 42 and 50 are the same tenon.
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hornbuilder
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Re: Do Bach 16/12/8 slides have same tenons?

Post by hornbuilder » Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:46 pm

Actually the 36 tenon is the same as the smaller horns. I used to put my 36 slide in my 39 alto bell, and the alto slide on the 36 bell just for kicks....
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Re: Do Bach 16/12/8 slides have same tenons?

Post by Burgerbob » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:49 pm

hornbuilder wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:46 pm
Actually the 36 tenon is the same as the smaller horns. I used to put my 36 slide in my 39 alto bell, and the alto slide on the 36 bell just for kicks....
Didn't know that!
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Re: Do Bach 16/12/8 slides have same tenons?

Post by Bach5G » Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:19 pm

I bought a 12 slide for my de Bruycker bell. Joe patterned his bell after a local legend’s Williams 6, so I think the 12 slide should be a good match. Joe didn’t make slides and you were on your own finding one. For a while Joe could get Bach slides, but Bach cut him off. I’ve seen 12 and 3B slides on Joe’s bells and heard of someone using a 2B slide too. I have a Bach 16 slide now, so I’m assuming the 12 will fit ok.
Last edited by Bach5G on Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:28 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Do Bach 16/12/8 slides have same tenons?

Post by mrdeacon » Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:20 pm

hornbuilder wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:46 pm
Actually the 36 tenon is the same as the smaller horns. I used to put my 36 slide in my 39 alto bell, and the alto slide on the 36 bell just for kicks....
Really? I must be on crazy pills!

Well just goes to show you even the confident ones on the internet (that's me!) can be wrong! Don't trust anyone :pant:
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Matt K
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Re: Do Bach 16/12/8 slides have same tenons?

Post by Matt K » Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:24 pm

mrdeacon wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:20 pm
hornbuilder wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:46 pm
Actually the 36 tenon is the same as the smaller horns. I used to put my 36 slide in my 39 alto bell, and the alto slide on the 36 bell just for kicks....
Really? I must be on crazy pills!

Well just goes to show you even the confident ones on the internet (that's me!) can be wrong! Don't trust anyone :pant:
It's entirely possible you just had a horn that had a tenon that was worn down or otherwise was not in-spec. I've encountered a few Bachs with similar issues.
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Re: Do Bach 16/12/8 slides have same tenons?

Post by hornbuilder » Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:44 am

Bach is the absolute King at using a minimum of parts for their entire range. They make "one" slide lock ring that is used from 39 alto to 50 bass. The same bell mandrel for 42 and 36, and one for 6, 8, 12, 16. The same handslide crook for all the small horns, and the 42 and 50. The 36 is the only one that "does" get it's own dedicated crook. The same gooseneck for 36 and 42 Etc etc etc.

No. It was not a "worn tenon".
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Matt K
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Re: Do Bach 16/12/8 slides have same tenons?

Post by Matt K » Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:36 am

I was thinking with reference to this:
Of my 8, 9, 16, Corp. 16M, and 90s. 16M slides, they are all interchangeable. However, the 90s 16M slide (and bell) do not truly fit the other bells (and slides). The tenon/receiver lengths (and diameters! or maybe just tapers) are subtly different just enough to where thread engagement is poor and the whole assembly is either super loose or super tight depending on the slide.
I've had a similar experience with several 42 and a 50 I owned. Which is to say that an incompatibility would be the exception, not the rule, not that the 36 being worn down was what caused it to be compatible.
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Re: Do Bach 16/12/8 slides have same tenons?

Post by Bach5G » Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:02 am

So same bells (6-36) different slide bores?
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Re: Do Bach 16/12/8 slides have same tenons?

Post by Burgerbob » Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:38 am

Bach5G wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:02 am
So same bells (6-36) different slide bores?
The 36 is not the same bell. Only up until the 16.

And yes, different slide bores.
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Re: Do Bach 16/12/8 slides have same tenons?

Post by Matt K » Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:51 am

There are numerous differences between the 6 and 36. The neckpipe varies between several of the horns, as does the flare and stem. The 36 is actually the closest to the 42 in terms of the bell section, with the exception of the slide receiver and the size of the bell (8" vs 8.5"). The tuning slides are somewhat (completely?) interchangeable, at least on modern Bach small bores up to the 16M (though they might be different parts), but the 36 shares the same tuning slide as the 42.
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