What To Do With this Poor Bundy?

[Mamaposaune]

I've had a Bundy trombone in my stash for quite awhile; someone either gave it to me or I got it cheap at a flea market because it needs a major repair.
Anyhow, not having much else to do, I got it out to try to figure out what to do with it. It is not playable - the brace on the handgrip is broken off on the mouthpiece side. In addition, the cork barrel is pushed in slightly so the outer slide cannot be inserted.
However, the parts are in very good shape. The bell section is fine, as is the case. (And nicer than most student horn cases, IMO) the outer slide looks good, with no damage.
The inners are great - no plating wear, and they appear straight and smooth.
So, I'm wondering if the brace is worth fixing, or should I sell the parts separately? Especially the inner slides - they would be a .500 bore, would they fit ANY slide with the same bore size? Ditto for the outers?
Of course the current situation with COVID doesn't help me consult with a repair tech. Could those-in-the-know give me a ballpark figure on what it would cost to order a new slide brace, solder it on, and align the slide?

[Elow]

Probably couldnt get much for it if you sold it, and unless you think youre going to play it, probably not worth the repair costs. I would donate it to a school or a repair shop.

[Mamaposaune]

Thanks, Elow. I definitely won't be playing it. If I ever get back into private teaching post-covid, I would pass it on to a student, or use it as a loaner, after repairs.
I know Bundys are not valuable; even after being repaired I may be lucky to get $150. or so for it.
Still wondering if the slide tubes would be of use to someone.

[Doug Elliott]

As with cars, there can be a considerable difference between monetary value to sell it (practically nothing) or value to you, if you keep it and get it repaired.

Consider that if it's repaired well and works well, you might have to spend $300 or more but then you'll have a decent horn that's actually worth that much. Just don't take it to somebody who will do a crappy job as if it's a school horn. Maybe they can use a cork barrel off of a scrap Bundy.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Your description of the case makes it sound like it might be a newer Bundy. I don’t have too many polite things to say about those. I have seen the chrome plating flake off the inner slides on those after a couple of months of use.

I worked in a repair shop and we saw MANY of the OLDER Bundys go through. Those are the ones that say “Designed by Vincent Bach” on the bell. A large percentage of those played extremely well. Some played as well as top shelf professional models.

No matter the vintage. My recommendation is to rig it temporarily in a way to make it possible to play a few test notes on it. If you like the sound of it, you could have a winner there. Then you can rebuild the brace area with some confidence that the end result will be decent.

Beware! If it has one of the OLDER Bundy cases, store it with extra bubble wrap on the inside. Those darn cases would allow the slide to make contact with the bell. Essentially, the case (which is supposed to store and protect the trombone) can potentially cause deep dents the bell.

[Mamaposaune]

Brian, it is old enough to be stamped "designed by Vincent Bach" on the bell. The case is black molded plastic with real hinges, and seems to be well made.
My guess is it's probably about 30 years old. It likely was not played for long before it suffered it's "accident".
My first trombone was a Bundy, back in the 70's. It was not the most responsive student horn, but boy, it was tough. My impression now, after playing and teaching for years and buying and re-selling numerous horns to my students, is that the (older) Bundys, as well as the Olds Ambassadors, are the most durable - perfect for the 8 and 9 year olds who drop their slides at least once each lesson. For the more careful ones, I prefer the Yamahas, older King 606's, Conn 14 and 16H's, and the Olds Ambassadors.

[Kingfan]

I ended up with a Chinese stencil that wasn't worth fixing. One cheap floor lamp later...

done.jpg

[CharlieB]

If you enjoy tinkering with things, there's something to be said for that.
From a $$$ standpoint, the old Bundy is just not worth the cost of a tech's labor to fix it.
Take a minute to search for "Bundy trombones" on ebay. Not pretty.

[Mamaposaune]

If you enjoy tinkering with things, there's something to be said for that.
From a $$$ standpoint, the old Bundy is just not worth the cost of a tech's labor to fix it.
Take a minute to search for "Bundy trombones" on ebay. Not pretty.

I don't need to do a search on eBay to know that the value of my poor Bundy is depressing. I just can't bring myself to take it to the curb, and was hoping it may at least have some value for it's parts. Or, if I could get it repaired for under $50., I would go ahead.
Still wondering if the inner slide tubes could be with any .500 bore outers? They are straight with the plating intact, and I think it was made before Bach moved their student horn production to China.

[Doug Elliott]

For a repair shop that pays rent and utilities, $50 just about pays for the time it takes to write up the ticket.
Personally I think it's worth fixing but you need to be realistic.

[Elow]

Or you could slowly become best friends with a repair tech, it really pays off. What they can do in 15 minutes is pretty expensive and if youre good friends, they probably will do it for free or atleast at a discount.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Brian, it is old enough to be stamped "designed by Vincent Bach" on the bell. The case is black molded plastic with real hinges, and seems to be well made.
My guess is it's probably about 30 years old. It likely was not played for long before it suffered it's "accident".
My first trombone was a Bundy, back in the 70's. It was not the most responsive student horn, but boy, it was tough. My impression now, after playing and teaching for years and buying and re-selling numerous horns to my students, is that the (older) Bundys, as well as the Olds Ambassadors, are the most durable - perfect for the 8 and 9 year olds who drop their slides at least once each lesson. For the more careful ones, I prefer the Yamahas, older King 606's, Conn 14 and 16H's, and the Olds Ambassadors.

I don't think you should judge the artistic potential of this horn based on your previous experience with a Bundy. Like I said, we went through MANY Bundys that were in the rental fleet at the repair shop. I'm talking thousands of horns. Sure, there were a few duds along the way........it happens in the professional models as well. However, there were a large number of Bundys (maybe 15-20%) that went past my bench that were absolutely fantastic! You never know, you could have a real winner there.

Doug Elliott gave good advice. I think he was saying that an instrument can have two different values....a monetary value and an artistic value to you. The monetary or "selling value" of that horn may never be more than a couple hundred bucks. However if it plays well, its value to you could easily be five or ten times that amount.

I have a couple of horns like that in my closet. There is a Pan American in my collection that has a monetary value of approximately $200. I have taken that horn on big band gigs and other trombonists have played it and offered me $1300 and more for it. I won't sell it because it is one of my favorite .500 bore horns and I love playing on it. I have a buddy who has a similar kind of trumpet. He bought a "Band USA" (made in China - ironic, isn't it?) red-lacquer trumpet back in the early 2000s for $100. He affectionately calls it "Big Red." It is a killer lead trumpet and people have offered big bucks for it for many years! If a horn plays.....enjoy it. It doesn't matter if it has a value of $200 or $5000!

[Mamaposaune]

Good points made by both you and Doug. Thanks, Brian.
I guess I just won't know if I have a gem or a dud until I get it repaired. (I can't get it to hold together even well enough to get a few notes out - the brace is broken and a little bent, and there are sharp, jagged edges)
I will probably need to wait until Covid passes, but will update once it is fixed. Thanks, everyone, I value your collective wisdom.

[Slidehamilton]

Also, as a repair tech myself, cork barrels can be fixed. There's a specific tool for that.

[Amconk]

Send me a pic of the damaged brace and cork barrel. I have a garage full of old slide parts, I'm sure a few bundys included. If I have a serviceable one, it's yours.

[hyperbolica]

They used to have these events for cheap bicycles called the "Huffy Toss". Huffy is the bicycle equivalent of Bundy. How far can you throw it? Extra points for parts that fall off in flight or after first bounce.

[JohnL]

OOH, OOH!

Use it as a test bed for alternative slide lubricants!

[mbtrombone]

Not actually seeing how bad the damage is, it is hard to say how much this will cost to fix, but a few hundred dollars seems reasonable for the repair. For reference the person I use to work on my slides charges $200 to straighten/align the slide, remove small dents in bell, tuning slides, replace bumper stops on the rotor, chemical dip the slide section, polish the inside of the outer slide, and the outside of the inner slide, and replace the water key cork. I have also seen him do amazing things with horns that were really mangled.

So, it really depends. If you plan to use the horn to loan out or anything like that, it might be worth the small investment to have a horn you know won't be the cause of the students playing problems, unlike some of the really horrible horns you can get on Amazon or Ebay these days.

[MTbassbone]

Convert it a flame thrower? Save it for a trombone throwing event? Turn it into a spittoon?

[Oslide]

Use it as a test bed for alternative slide lubricants!

[Mamaposaune]

For anyone interested in the fate of the Poor Bundy, it has been given a new lease in life. I found a Bundy slide section advertised about 45 minutes from me, and picked it up for $30. The outer is tarnished and has a dented crook, but the inner is in good shape, and fits the outer I have pretty well, and will be even better after an alignment.
It plays, for better or worse, like a Bundy. Not bad, but not as easy to focus and center the sound as well as the better student horns, IMO.