Scammer

ttf_CJ · Post by **ttf_CJ** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:59 pm

This is the 2nd time I've gotten a PM from this scammer:

Quote from: jeromekunbone on Jan 12, 2018, 07:44AMHello Buddy, You listed a Wtb ad looking for a King 2B+. Email Terri in Indiana. He has one for sale. Here's his email [url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url]

ttf_TromboneConcerto · Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:58 am

I've also recieved these PM's from the same user.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:08 am

Who sent the PM's? That's against our rules.

ttf_fsung · Post by **ttf_fsung** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:26 am

Quote from: BGuttman on Jan 13, 2018, 08:08AMWho sent the PM's? That's against our rules.

Really? Which rules? I don't see anything in the [url=http://=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,29862.msg404477.html#msg404477TOU]=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topi ... g404477TOU[/url] about PMs, much less what is or is not permitted in PMs. Where are these rules published?

ttf_Radar · Post by **ttf_Radar** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:42 am

Just curious but did you post looking for that particular instrument? How do you know it's a scam, and he doesn't actually know someone selling a horn like you are looking for? If you aren't looking for this particular horn then the PM was inappropriate, if you did post looking for that model horn perhaps it is a legitimate attempt to try to put you in touch with someone selling a horn. I'm not saying it isn't a scammer, just curious what makes you think it is.

ttf_TromboneConcerto · Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:13 pm

Quote from: Radar on Jan 13, 2018, 08:42AMJust curious but did you post looking for that particular instrument? How do you know it's a scam, and he doesn't actually know someone selling a horn like you are looking for? If you aren't looking for this particular horn then the PM was inappropriate, if you did post looking for that model horn perhaps it is a legitimate attempt to try to put you in touch with someone selling a horn. I'm not saying it isn't a scammer, just curious what makes you think it is.

In my experience (I've gotten two PM's from him, each time telling me to email a different person) and when I do email them, they send a scripted response (copy pasted). This is what I got:

QuoteKyle - Thanks for writing. Sorry for the delay in response. I just got a chance to check my mail. Yes, I have a B&S Model 3049 Professional Alto Trombone I'm willing to sale in excellent condition. This instrument is in mint condition. it's a NEW OLD STOCK B&S Model 3049 alto trombone. I personally think this is a great alto-nice clear tone that is just right for baroque or classical playing, and at home with Brahms and Beethoven as well. This horn sounds like a true alto, not a chopped tenor like some of the altos on the market. This one is gorgeous-lacquer is 100% with no wear. This horn has the lightweight nickel-silver slide that really allows you to rip through those fast passages in the Mozart Requiem. This instrument has recently been discontinued so we are blowing out this brand new horn at a GREAT price. Pics tell the rest of the story! Asking for $1,155 plus Walmart fee shipped. I'm in Texas and will ship ship via UPS. The price includes shipping and payment will be made via the services provided by Walmart. What is your complete shipping address?

Thanks
Shannon

Now, check out this link: https://reverb.com/ca/item/3790093-b-s-model-3049-professional-alto-trombone-new-old-stock
Oh look... It's the exact same description that I was emailed... That's from QuinnTheEskimo! Not Shannon in Texas!

Included in the email I got was also the same pictures from that eBay ad.

I will never deal with anyone except over PayPal or cash in hand.

Hope that clears things up.

Cheers
Kyle

PS - Bruce, the user sending these PMs goes under the name 'jeromekunbone'.

ttf_CJ · Post by **ttf_CJ** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:37 am

Ive followed up with this person in the past, and he wants the money my Wal-mart money order (no protections like paypal). That, and the single digit numbers of posts on the forum made me suspicious. Then he tries the same thing with a different horn and a different friend of his. Pretty obviously a scammer.

ttf_greenbean · Post by **ttf_greenbean** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:41 am

Quote from: fsung on Jan 13, 2018, 08:26AMReally? Which rules? I don't see anything in the [url=http://=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,29862.msg404477.html#msg404477TOU]=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topi ... g404477TOU[/url] about PMs, much less what is or is not permitted in PMs. Where are these rules published?

Does the forum really need a rule that prohibits scam PMs?...

ttf_fsung · Post by **ttf_fsung** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:27 pm

Quote from: greenbean on Jan 14, 2018, 10:41AMDoes the forum really need a rule that prohibits scam PMs?...

That's assuming the PM was/is, in fact, a scam. On the face of it, and in the absence of any explanation in the OP (or the first reply) as to why the posters believe the sender to be a scammer, the PM looks like a simple referral. (Yes, their subsequent posts do appear to justify their belief.)

I've PMed other members who posted WTBs with contact info of friends/colleagues who were selling equipment they were looking for, and received PMs from other members with contact info of their friends/colleagues who were selling equipment that I was looking for. (In fact, this past Nov I bought a Yeo replica via a PM referral.) Is that permissible, or does it run afoul of forum rules? And if it does run afoul of forum rules, and since it (and possibly other actions) are not specified in the TOU, do you not agree that it would be helpful to all forum users to know what those rules are and where they can be found?

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:44 pm

Mr Sung, I am not a lawyer. Many of our members can recognize characteristics of scams. One is a non-traceable payment method (usually Wester Union, but Wal-Mart is a new one).

One poster issues a concern and suddenly a few others corroborate the concern.

The Classified is Caveat Emptor, and the community trying to warn about questionable actions is actually one of the few policing methods we have.

I now need to contact this member for an explanation. If he's really scamming, his membership is forfeit.

Note that as Administrator I have some sayso in how the Forum runs and as a representative of the Owner I can do what I think right. Usually I will talk to other Forum Staff before making a drastic step like removing a membership.

ttf_fsung · Post by **ttf_fsung** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:55 am

Quote from: BGuttman on Jan 14, 2018, 05:44PMMr Sung, I am not a lawyer. Many of our members can recognize characteristics of scams. One is a non-traceable payment method (usually Wester Union, but Wal-Mart is a new one).

One poster issues a concern and suddenly a few others corroborate the concern.

The Classified is Caveat Emptor, and the community trying to warn about questionable actions is actually one of the few policing methods we have.

I now need to contact this member for an explanation. If he's really scamming, his membership is forfeit.

Note that as Administrator I have some sayso in how the Forum runs and as a representative of the Owner I can do what I think right. Usually I will talk to other Forum Staff before making a drastic step like removing a membership.

That's all well and good, but what forum "rule" did the person who PM'ed the OP violate? I have no problem with mods taking action against members who violate the TOU or who, on circumstantial evidence, appear to be attempting to engage in scams, but since you assert that what the person who PMed the OP did was/is against "our rules," I want to know what those "rules" are, in order both to avoid inadvertently violating those rules myself, and to be able to apprise mods of other potential/probable violations I happen across going forward.

[For the record, unless you were in possession of information that was not publically available at the time of your initial post, ONE other poster appeared to corroborate the OP's assertion. [NB: Few (adjective) - not many but more than one; (noun) - used with a plural verb a small number or amount] That may be sufficient grounds for inferring that the OP's assessment of the PM is correct and for initiating an investigation against member in question, but nothing in the OP suggests that the member in question violated any forum "rules."

ttf_greenbean · Post by **ttf_greenbean** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:25 am

The person sent a PM in an attempt to scam someone. The objective of the scam is to steal money.

Try to keep in mind that the "forum member" who sent the PM is not really a member of the trombone or forum community. They are some guy who is pretending to have an interest in trombone merely to "infiltrate" the community to scam us. Do you understand now?

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:17 am

I have done a little searching. Jeromekunbone shares an IP with another member called DENNISSTOUT, who has never logged on. He claims to be Jerome L. Brown who plays a DeBruyker 62H and studies (studied) at the College of Music. The IP is English.

I will send Mr. Brown an e-mail asking about his questionable activity. I've never done this before so give me a little while to figure out what I want to say.

ttf_fsung · Post by **ttf_fsung** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:36 am

Quote from: greenbean on Jan 15, 2018, 09:25AMThe person sent a PM in an attempt to scam someone. The objective of the scam is to steal money.

Try to keep in mind that the "forum member" who sent the PM is not really a member of the trombone or forum community. They are some guy who is pretending to have an interest in trombone merely to "infiltrate" the community to scam us. Do you understand now?

In late Oct, I PM'ed a forum member who had listed a Yeo replica mpc FS in the Classifieds several months earlier, inquiring whether the mpc was still available. The member replied saying, no, but referred me a colleague who was not a TF member who had a Yeo replica fs. In this instance, the name of the colleague would have been instantly recognizable to just about anyone with more than a passing interest in orchestral music. I was able to verify to my satisfaction that things were on the up-and-up, and the transaction went off in early Nov without a hitch. Was the referral to a third party by the forum member permissible under the "rules" of TTF or not?

At the time Bruce made the assertion that the PM was "against our rules" the OP had asserted that the PM was a scam, but had provided no information publically as to why he believed that to be the case. While it is certainly the case that information provided in subsequent posts suggest that the OP's assertion is amply justified, the phrase "against our rules" implies that that the PM breached some TF-specific rule, yet I can find nothing in the immediately accessible published rules for the site (the TOU) that suggests that a TF-specific rule had been violated. If such a ruleand other rules not contained in the TOUexist, where can they be found?

Do YOU understand now?

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:16 pm

The rule that was violated was to "treat everybody fairly", not sending an e-mail referring to a 3rd party. In your case the referral was on the up-and-up and all went well. In this case, the OP was concerned because of a few warning flags. Then others chimed in with similar experiences. I don't want to see anybody crying because they lost money to a dishonest Forum member. Especially one who would prey on younger and less sophisticated members.