New trombone buy

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ttf_TromboneFantasy
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_TromboneFantasy » Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:57 pm

I want to buy a new horn. Currently I have a yamaha 356g.I have to choose between a xeno yamaha ysl 882O(I have money it now ) and a Bach 42AF ( provided that collecting more money and wait more time) What to do ?
Sorry for bad english
ttf_norbie2009
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_norbie2009 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:13 pm

I'd choose the Yamaha, although you may want to consider the 882OR as well.
ttf_Burgerbob
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Post by ttf_Burgerbob » Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:26 pm

The Yamaha will be just fine!

And great English.
ttf_vegasbound
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_vegasbound » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:02 am

What has your teacher suggested?
ttf_anonymous
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Post by ttf_anonymous » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:58 am

The Yamaha Xeno is a very good horn!
ttf_crazytrombonist505
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_crazytrombonist505 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:39 am

I would go with the Yamaha. It is a very nice horn!
ttf_ISAB
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_ISAB » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:51 am

The Xeno is a an amazing horn!!!
I've been very satisfied with it
The slide slots very well and it projects well too
ttf_TromboneFantasy
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_TromboneFantasy » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:33 am

Arguments please ?
Bach vs Yamaha and
Gold vs Yellow bell
ttf_BGuttman
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:03 pm

Bach's consistency is spotty.  It's best if you can play test it before buying.

Yamaha has very good consistency.  If you have to buy sight unseen you will do better.

If I remember correctly, you have to buy online.  That says "Yamaha".

Gold vs. yellow?  I tend to be a bit bright and the gold brass tends to tame it a little.  Most people do best on a yellow brass bell.  Regardless of what you buy you will adapt to it.
ttf_ISAB
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_ISAB » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:48 pm

Gold brass is darker than yellow brass. I've tried both the gold and yellow brass Xenos but personally liked the gold brass better.
It all depends on your personal preferences though. You'll have to see for yourself. Image

Yes, BGuttman is correct about Bach's consistency being spotty. I tried one at the store and it was far below the Xenos. But I am sure there are ones that are magical.
ttf_norbie2009
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_norbie2009 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:13 pm

The 882OR is a Bach-style horn so if you are looking for that vibe the 882OR may suit your fancy. I play on an 882GO and really love the sound I get, but I've made mods to it: I had M&W Trombones put their bracing on to free up the bell and they replaced my slide's yellow end crook with a nickel silver one. I also have a nickel silver wide slide I purchased from a forum member a while ago that I enjoy using.

But that's neither here not there - either 882O or 882OR in yellow or gold brass may last you the rest of your playing career - they're that good. Choose one and enjoy!
ttf_ISAB
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_ISAB » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:32 am

The 882OR is a good lot more expensive than the O and GO, actually around the same as the Stradivarius 42B.
ttf_vegasbound
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_vegasbound » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:29 am

DJ has some very nice Elkie 88H's including a 1955!
ttf_BGuttman
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:34 am

Quote from: vegasbound on Mar 08, 2017, 09:29AMDJ has some very nice Elkie 88H's including a 1955!

What's it going to take to ship to Romania?
ttf_vegasbound
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_vegasbound » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:43 am

Quote from: BGuttman on Mar 08, 2017, 09:34AMWhat's it going to take to ship to Romania?

It is currently here in the UK!
ttf_TromboneFantasy
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_TromboneFantasy » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:53 pm

So , Yamaha is the best choice for me ?  Most pro players play on bach , yamaha horns and bach horns they are the same level ? Difference is 1600Euro ,is not very much . But is really hard choice .
ttf_bigbassbone1
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_bigbassbone1 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:19 pm

Personally,in my own experience you cannot go too wrong with bach... I have played a few bachs that were not awesome so I agree if possible, it is best to have a play on a specific one before buying it. Bachs tend to be very versatile, it is easy to play them in a variety of situations. There is nothing wrong with the yamaha so whatever you choose you will not go wrong, but i agree that a lot of people play bach, and that should tell you something.
ttf_BGuttman
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:41 pm

Quote from: TromboneFantasy on Mar 08, 2017, 03:53PMSo , Yamaha is the best choice for me ?  Most pro players play on bach , yamaha horns and bach horns they are the same level ? Difference is 1600Euro ,is not very much . But is really hard choice .

Most pro players nowadays play on Shires, Edwards, and Rath.

There are pro players on Yamaha 882 and on Bach 42 also.  And on Courtois, and Thein.
ttf_BillO
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_BillO » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:04 pm

Quote from: TromboneFantasy on Mar 08, 2017, 03:53PMSo , Yamaha is the best choice for me ?  Most pro players play on bach , yamaha horns and bach horns they are the same level ? Difference is 1600Euro ,is not very much . But is really hard choice .
Well, to me 1600 euro is quite a  lot.

First off, don't worry about what pro's play.  A lot of pro's are exceptionally talented quirky people and can and will play on the most weird stuff, just because it suits them in some way ... that may not suit you.

For me, trying an instrument is the best way for me to decide what I can work with.  I usually rent one for a while (1 or 2 months) before making a decision to buy.

What do you have available locally to try?  Can you get a Yamaha and a Bach in your hands to try out?  Personally I've met a few Bachs I like (very few), but nearly every Yamaha I have tried has been a great horn.

Also, if you have the opportunity, see if you can try an XO Brass 1236.  The 1236RL-O is my personal favorite.  They may look superficially like Conn trombones, but they play very much like Yamahas and usually cost a bit less.  All the XO Brass trombones I've played have been built to the highest standards and have truly amazing consistency between individual horns.  Even better consistency than Yamaha, in my opinion.
ttf_vegasbound
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_vegasbound » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:21 am

Quote from: BGuttman on Mar 08, 2017, 04:41PMMost pro players nowadays play on Shires, Edwards, and Rath.

There are pro players on Yamaha 882 and on Bach 42 also.  And on Courtois, and Thein.

Many pro's still play the 88H both here in the UK and in europe!
ttf_TromboneFantasy
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_TromboneFantasy » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:07 pm

Others opinions?
ttf_jalapeno
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_jalapeno » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:36 pm

no one mentioned Benge
ttf_BGuttman
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Post by ttf_BGuttman » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:51 pm

He originally asked for a comparison of the Yamaha 882 versus a Bach 42A (Hagmann).

There are certainly lots of other great trombones out there.

Also, availability in Romania (where TromboneFantasy lives) may be an issue.
ttf_TromboneFantasy
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_TromboneFantasy » Mon May 15, 2017 3:31 pm

Hickey's Music it's a good shop ? What shop from USA  recommended ?
ttf_Krazzikk
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_Krazzikk » Sat May 27, 2017 8:35 am

I bought a Yamaha Xeno 882O a couple months ago and I'm loving it. All I had owned before was a 40+ year old King 606 (which has served me very well), so it was a huge step up for my orchestral/symphonic playing. I tried the 6 or 7 trombones they had at my local store, which were Conn88, Eastman 820, Bach42, the Yamaha 882O and some others I can't remember the names of. It ended up being between the Yamaha and the Eastman, the Eastman being ~$700 cheaper and with a nicer case, but I ended up going with the Yamaha as I couldn't stand the wide hand slide and I was convinced it had a slightly nicer sound.

After a couple months with it, I can tell you it's very responsive and resonant and I'm happy with my purchase. I would definitely recommend trying whatever you buy first, if possible though.
ttf_greenbean
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_greenbean » Sat May 27, 2017 8:43 am

Quote from: TromboneFantasy on May 15, 2017, 03:31PMHickey's Music it's a good shop ? What shop from USA  recommended ?

The Horn Guys (www.hornguys.com) are excellent.
ttf_Blackthorne
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_Blackthorne » Sun May 28, 2017 7:40 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Mar 10, 2017, 04:51PMHe originally asked for a comparison of the Yamaha 882 versus a Bach 42A (Hagmann).

There are certainly lots of other great trombones out there.

Also, availability in Romania (where TromboneFantasy lives) may be an issue.

I think he's talking about the 42AF, which has the Infinity axial flow valve (like a Thayer only better). 

If it were my call, I'd choose the Bach, but I prefer axial flow valves to rotary.  I play tested an 8820 alongside a Getzen 3047AF, and while I preferred the Getzen, I certainly didn't think the 8820 was a bad horn.  I also haven't played on a 42AF, so I don't know how it would compare to a 3047, but I'd guess that it'd be very similar.
ttf_Bjroosevelt
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_Bjroosevelt » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:35 pm

I've dragged my kid (3 years trombone experience / one year euphonium) into about a billion music stores now and he has tried a bunch of horns ranging from $500 USD to $4,000 USD....Vintage and new Conn, new and slightly used Bach, new Yamaha, new and used Getzen, King, Eastman and a few others.  "Try  a Bach."  "Try a King."  "Try a Yamaha." is what I heard.

So we tried a bunch of Bachs and every one of them sounded lousy on him....Out of the entire bunch of 0.525, dual bore, and 0.547 horns tested from all of those brands I mentioned, the ONLY two horns that sounded good on him were a vintage Conn 88H   Image (similar to the current 88HT configuration), and a new dual bore Conn 56H.  We ended up with a vintage Conn which had had some damage, but which had been repaired very well.  Spent less than $2,000 USD. (Final price is confidential).  And it was the third cheapest horn he had tried out of the entire lot.  (Cheaper than the new 56H and sounded better).

On this very forum, I had people cringing that I would even consider purchasing an irreplaceable vintage Conn Elkhart horn for my 12 year old son. Other forum participants who have used the Conns think that the Bach's are superior instruments.  Some said the horn was too big for him.  Others said that Conn was a great instrument and that my son would grow into it soon enough.  There was lots of disagreement.....but when I listen to my son play, I know we made the right choice.

Key Leanings:  Even though the TTF participants generally have a good idea of which instruments are manufactured consistently well (Yamaha for example), which are manufactured consistently poorly (some Chinese horns), and which are manufactured inconsistently (Bach for example), no one really knows which horn is best for you......because no one else has either your chops or your lungs. The best advice from anyone on this forum (and it was actually pretty frequent advice) was simply, try playing every instrument you can.  The horn is a big investment.....not so much because of the price tag, but because you are going to be playing that thing for at least an hour a day for the next decade. 

When I was a kid, we used to try out our friends' instruments.  Sounds like people nowadays think that is disrespectful or illicit.  I don't get it.  If we had any interest in sanitation, we wouldn't be musicians.  Between my sax and my son's trombone, and his teachers tuba, spit is all over the place.  Do you know any other horn players with trombones you could try? 

If you really don't have access to trying out any other horns, I highly recommend buying a used trombone that you think you could sell again within the next year or two.   If you haven't tried the horn before you purchase it, your chance of disappointment is high, regardless of any reviews.   I have an old clunky saxophone that is heavy, not well balanced and has issues with certain keys.  It sounds great, but is really hard to play on the high notes........The problem is that when I go down to the local music store to try the pristine Yamaha, I get a pure, clean sound quality that is completely devoid of any character.  I hate it.   I don't really care that the keys on the Yamaha are easier to use.....or that the Yamaha is much lighter......or that the Yamaha is much better balanced......or that Yamaha currently has the best reputation in saxophones....or that the instrument has incredible reviews....  I am not spending money on a Yamaha despite all of its "superiority"........A Yamaha is the wrong instrument for me, but it is still a really, really good sax.  There are some incredible musicians that play Yamahas.

I think you get the point.  Start cheap or buy a horn you can resell if you are not able to play it first. 

  Image Image Image Image Image



ttf_Bjroosevelt
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New trombone buy

Post by ttf_Bjroosevelt » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:35 pm

I've dragged my kid (3 years trombone experience / one year euphonium) into about a billion music stores now and he has tried a bunch of horns ranging from $500 USD to $4,000 USD....Vintage and new Conn, new and slightly used Bach, new Yamaha, new and used Getzen, King, Eastman and a few others.  "Try  a Bach."  "Try a King."  "Try a Yamaha." is what I heard.

So we tried a bunch of Bachs and every one of them sounded lousy on him....Out of the entire bunch of 0.525, dual bore, and 0.547 horns tested from all of those brands I mentioned, the ONLY two horns that sounded good on him were a vintage Conn 88H   Image (similar to the current 88HT configuration), and a new dual bore Conn 56H.  We ended up with a vintage Conn which had had some damage, but which had been repaired very well.  Spent less than $2,000 USD. (Final price is confidential).  And it was the third cheapest horn he had tried out of the entire lot.  (Cheaper than the new 56H and sounded better).

On this very forum, I had people cringing that I would even consider purchasing an irreplaceable vintage Conn Elkhart horn for my 12 year old son. Other forum participants who have used the Conns think that the Bach's are superior instruments.  Some said the horn was too big for him.  Others said that Conn was a great instrument and that my son would grow into it soon enough.  There was lots of disagreement.....but when I listen to my son play, I know we made the right choice.

Key Leanings:  Even though the TTF participants generally have a good idea of which instruments are manufactured consistently well (Yamaha for example), which are manufactured consistently poorly (some Chinese horns), and which are manufactured inconsistently (Bach for example), no one really knows which horn is best for you......because no one else has either your chops or your lungs. The best advice from anyone on this forum (and it was actually pretty frequent advice) was simply, try playing every instrument you can.  The horn is a big investment.....not so much because of the price tag, but because you are going to be playing that thing for at least an hour a day for the next decade. 

When I was a kid, we used to try out our friends' instruments.  Sounds like people nowadays think that is disrespectful or illicit.  I don't get it.  If we had any interest in sanitation, we wouldn't be musicians.  Between my sax and my son's trombone, and his teachers tuba, spit is all over the place.  Do you know any other horn players with trombones you could try? 

If you really don't have access to trying out any other horns, I highly recommend buying a used trombone that you think you could sell again within the next year or two.   If you haven't tried the horn before you purchase it, your chance of disappointment is high, regardless of any reviews.   I have an old clunky saxophone that is heavy, not well balanced and has issues with certain keys.  It sounds great, but is really hard to play on the high notes........The problem is that when I go down to the local music store to try the pristine Yamaha, I get a pure, clean sound quality that is completely devoid of any character.  I hate it.   I don't really care that the keys on the Yamaha are easier to use.....or that the Yamaha is much lighter......or that the Yamaha is much better balanced......or that Yamaha currently has the best reputation in saxophones....or that the instrument has incredible reviews....  I am not spending money on a Yamaha despite all of its "superiority"........A Yamaha is the wrong instrument for me, but it is still a really, really good sax.  There are some incredible musicians that play Yamahas.

I think you get the point.  Start cheap or buy a horn you can resell if you are not able to play it first. 

  Image Image Image Image Image



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