I am borrowing a fine German trombone these days with an option to buy:
Horst Voigt Bb/F Bass trombone
German model with snake and broad Kranz about 7 cm
Finish: unlaquered brass and german silver, needs cleaning/polishing
Bell: 231mm
Bore: 13.1 / 13.9 mm dual bore german silver slide (4 cm longer positions than normal)
Valve: Quart F 15.2 mm bore
Convertible: Additional dependent 'Einsteck' valve Eb/D bore 15.2 mm
which can be placed in the normal F-attachement slide tubes and comes with Eb
and D slide.
Main tuning slide: 16.6 / 24.6 mm expansion
Large bell throat, but small bell and small bore.
Receiver: slightly smaller than modern bass trombone shaft (13.6 mm opening)
Mouthpieces: Schmidt KBP 7 and Schmidt KBP 8, both about 27.6mm diameter
Year: build in 1982
The instrument is unused for 20 years, needs cleaning, but looks otherwise
mechanically fine. Slide action is good, it plays darker in timbre as one
would expect from the measurements, but is of course on the light side for a
bass trombone. Modern mouthpieces need to be adjusted to fit the receiver.
The F-valve plays fine, but the adding the convertible makes the double valve
range stuffy, this needs practice. Also the finger trigger is cumbersome. I
think it is best used as a small and light single trigger bass trombone.
I like the tonal quality, but the question is obviously: how much does one get
the chance to play a light-weight single-valve bass in modern times? It will not work for
Brass Band and Big Band, I think. That is what I do most.
To buy or not to buy, that is the question ... what do you think ? Do you use such a special trombone for some special occasions?
Horst Voigt Bb/F Bass trombone 1982
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ttf_marccromme
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ttf_Edward_Solomon
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Horst Voigt Bb/F Bass trombone 1982
That sounds to me like a very specialised instrument, best suited to German and Austrian romantic repertoire such as Brahms, Schumann, Mendelssohn. If it's for brass band and big band, I wouldn't go anywhere near it.
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ttf_Tbonedude
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Horst Voigt Bb/F Bass trombone 1982
There's not too many chances that anyone gets to buy an instrument like that. I'm sure there's a use for it somewhere. I have a Crown Eb Mellophonium that I thought I'd never play at all (I thought an alto horn mouthpiece would fit, but it takes cornet shank), but I found a good mouthpiece and I play it in jazz gigs alongside my trombone.
On the contrary... if you're looking for a practical instrument that you're going to play often, that doesn't sound like the horn.
On the contrary... if you're looking for a practical instrument that you're going to play often, that doesn't sound like the horn.
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ttf_marccromme
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Horst Voigt Bb/F Bass trombone 1982
Yes, I agree that classic or early romantic music in smaller orchestras is the place to use a horn like that. Or chamber music maybe.
I forgot to mention in my earlier post that I have a fine Bb/F/GbD Kruspe which works well for Brass Band, and a Wessex Yamaha clone which works fine for Big Band. So the horn does not need to fit these roles.
Question is however, are there other situations where a light-weight single-valve German horn can be used?
I have to play the Glinka Waltz Fantasy in a few weeks, there a one-valve light-weight bass trombone would fit, I guess. D-major, nothing higher than d above bass staff and nothing lower than g in bottom of bass staff I will play it with a small 30 head count orchestra.
But I hesitate to buy a fine horn just for one or a few performances ... I have to think it over once more.
I forgot to mention in my earlier post that I have a fine Bb/F/GbD Kruspe which works well for Brass Band, and a Wessex Yamaha clone which works fine for Big Band. So the horn does not need to fit these roles.
Question is however, are there other situations where a light-weight single-valve German horn can be used?
I have to play the Glinka Waltz Fantasy in a few weeks, there a one-valve light-weight bass trombone would fit, I guess. D-major, nothing higher than d above bass staff and nothing lower than g in bottom of bass staff I will play it with a small 30 head count orchestra.
But I hesitate to buy a fine horn just for one or a few performances ... I have to think it over once more.
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ttf_marccromme
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:30 pm
Horst Voigt Bb/F Bass trombone 1982
Pictures : http://cromme.dk/instruments/2017-05-12_horst_voigt_bass_trombone/
I think it will be pretty easy to convert the horn to a permanent Bb/F/D dependent setup, as all the needed tubing is found in the Einsteck-valve.
However, I find that the existing convertible 2-valve setup plays pretty stuffy when activating both valves. A conversion to a dependent system should therefore probably also exchange valves to some more open models ??
Hmm - so many options ...
I did use two hours playing time today, and the preliminary conclusions so far are:
The original Schmidt KBP8 and KBP7 mouthpieces do not work so well for me, as the bore is pretty narrow. I get better results with a modern, but small Yamaha 58 mouthpiece. A Yamaha 59 does also work, but is a bit too large for the instrument. A Laskey 85 MD or a Schilke 59 does not work well.
Tuning is fine, the Voigt plays 443 Hz with 1 cm pull using the Schmidt mouthpieces, and a 0.5 cm pull using the Yamahas (these should have the shank turned down a bit to make a better fit).
Using the Yamaha mouthpieces, the instrument slots better and has a clearer sound. Also the valve register is less muffled. Probably I should try to find a German mouthpiece of approcimatively the same size ??
Intonation is general fine, overtones sit nicely in tune. The high Ab is playable in 1st position, it needs only a bit of lipping-up. Pedals tend to come a bit too sharp.
I think it will be pretty easy to convert the horn to a permanent Bb/F/D dependent setup, as all the needed tubing is found in the Einsteck-valve.
However, I find that the existing convertible 2-valve setup plays pretty stuffy when activating both valves. A conversion to a dependent system should therefore probably also exchange valves to some more open models ??
Hmm - so many options ...
I did use two hours playing time today, and the preliminary conclusions so far are:
The original Schmidt KBP8 and KBP7 mouthpieces do not work so well for me, as the bore is pretty narrow. I get better results with a modern, but small Yamaha 58 mouthpiece. A Yamaha 59 does also work, but is a bit too large for the instrument. A Laskey 85 MD or a Schilke 59 does not work well.
Tuning is fine, the Voigt plays 443 Hz with 1 cm pull using the Schmidt mouthpieces, and a 0.5 cm pull using the Yamahas (these should have the shank turned down a bit to make a better fit).
Using the Yamaha mouthpieces, the instrument slots better and has a clearer sound. Also the valve register is less muffled. Probably I should try to find a German mouthpiece of approcimatively the same size ??
Intonation is general fine, overtones sit nicely in tune. The high Ab is playable in 1st position, it needs only a bit of lipping-up. Pedals tend to come a bit too sharp.
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ttf_marccromme
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:30 pm
Horst Voigt Bb/F Bass trombone 1982
Pictures : http://cromme.dk/instruments/2017-05-12_horst_voigt_bass_trombone/
I think it will be pretty easy to convert the horn to a permanent Bb/F/D dependent setup, as all the needed tubing is found in the Einsteck-valve.
However, I find that the existing convertible 2-valve setup plays pretty stuffy when activating both valves. A conversion to a dependent system should therefore probably also exchange valves to some more open models ??
Hmm - so many options ...
I did use two hours playing time today, and the preliminary conclusions so far are:
The original Schmidt KBP8 and KBP7 mouthpieces do not work so well for me, as the bore is pretty narrow. I get better results with a modern, but small Yamaha 58 mouthpiece. A Yamaha 59 does also work, but is a bit too large for the instrument. A Laskey 85 MD or a Schilke 59 does not work well.
Tuning is fine, the Voigt plays 443 Hz with 1 cm pull using the Schmidt mouthpieces, and a 0.5 cm pull using the Yamahas (these should have the shank turned down a bit to make a better fit).
Using the Yamaha mouthpieces, the instrument slots better and has a clearer sound. Also the valve register is less muffled. Probably I should try to find a German mouthpiece of approcimatively the same size ??
Intonation is general fine, overtones sit nicely in tune. The high Ab is playable in 1st position, it needs only a bit of lipping-up. Pedals tend to come a bit too sharp.
I think it will be pretty easy to convert the horn to a permanent Bb/F/D dependent setup, as all the needed tubing is found in the Einsteck-valve.
However, I find that the existing convertible 2-valve setup plays pretty stuffy when activating both valves. A conversion to a dependent system should therefore probably also exchange valves to some more open models ??
Hmm - so many options ...
I did use two hours playing time today, and the preliminary conclusions so far are:
The original Schmidt KBP8 and KBP7 mouthpieces do not work so well for me, as the bore is pretty narrow. I get better results with a modern, but small Yamaha 58 mouthpiece. A Yamaha 59 does also work, but is a bit too large for the instrument. A Laskey 85 MD or a Schilke 59 does not work well.
Tuning is fine, the Voigt plays 443 Hz with 1 cm pull using the Schmidt mouthpieces, and a 0.5 cm pull using the Yamahas (these should have the shank turned down a bit to make a better fit).
Using the Yamaha mouthpieces, the instrument slots better and has a clearer sound. Also the valve register is less muffled. Probably I should try to find a German mouthpiece of approcimatively the same size ??
Intonation is general fine, overtones sit nicely in tune. The high Ab is playable in 1st position, it needs only a bit of lipping-up. Pedals tend to come a bit too sharp.