Thoughts on buying a cheap valve section for an existing bell/horn

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ttf_davdud101
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Thoughts on buying a cheap valve section for an existing bell/horn

Post by ttf_davdud101 »

What are some of the potential downsides to purchasing one of these cheap (sub-$150) valve trombones on Amazon or eBay and using the valve section on an existing bell (namely, a Yamaha 354)?

I'm considering doing so to get some practice on low brass valves without lugging out the whole euphonium and having to set myself up for playing euphonium. In addition it could be cool in (low-level) performance settings where there might not be quite as much space for a slide.

But how bad would the intonation be? Could it possibly wreck my tone? Is the general build quality just bad? What would I be looking out for even, if I really were considering doing this?

Just trying to save a buck on the 354V.... those things are PRICEY!
ttf_Matt K
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Thoughts on buying a cheap valve section for an existing bell/horn

Post by ttf_Matt K »

I've had some CHinese pistoned instruments. They work well at first... but they aren't machined very well and wear down, start to leak.  Problem with putting it on any horn not meant for it is that the lengths might not be right.  Intonation is one thing on a slide where you can adjust it, but its another ball of wax when you are fixed to the 3 valve slides.  Also, you'd have to replace the corkbarrel on your slide unless the threads were miraculously identical. The YSL 354 has the tenon sort of built into the cork barrel.

Also, those were some of the mid grade Chinese ones too. The horns sub $200 aren't worth the brass they're made out of.  I have a tech who got one of the Wagner tubas for around that price.  He went to fix a solder point that had came loose and lo and behold, the torch melted a hole in the bell.  Turns out it was made out of potmetal.  Not every horn in that price range is, but I've yet to play one that it wouldn't have been better for the person to use the money towards something better.

If you really want to go that route, get one from a dealer that does QC... although I'm not sure if I've ever seen a dealer with a valve instrument other than the Wessex Superbone.
ttf_BGuttman
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Thoughts on buying a cheap valve section for an existing bell/horn

Post by ttf_BGuttman »

I'd be most concerned about the valve build.  Lots of times the valves are not properly honed in and the casings are warped.

If you are looking for facility in 3 valves, a trumpet will serve.  Low brass players (at least the ones I know) use 4 (and more!) valves so fumbling with a 3 valve "trombone" valve section won't help much at all.

For what you would pay for a playable trombone valve section (assuming it ould fit your Yammie 354 bell; it may not) you could get an old 3 valve baritone horn or even an older valve trombone (the whole thing).

Or just be patient until a Yammie 354V comes up for sale.
ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist
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Thoughts on buying a cheap valve section for an existing bell/horn

Post by ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist »

Wessex bass trumpet
ttf_davdud101
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Thoughts on buying a cheap valve section for an existing bell/horn

Post by ttf_davdud101 »

So I'm a bit torn.
For the sake of fun (and more reasons you'll see in my OP), i want to invest in either a valve trombone, marching trombone, or bass trumpet. In a way, I wouldn't mind something that's would wow the crowds a little with its unorthodox appearance, and still be functional as a good trombone-like voice (a bill that any of these, but primarily bass trumpet and valve trombone, would fit).

Does anyone has experience with Wessex's versions of these horns? I'm primarily thinking of the silver versions of their Bb piston-valve bass trumpet and Bb valve trombone.
ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist
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Thoughts on buying a cheap valve section for an existing bell/horn

Post by ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist »

I haven't played one, but I've heard Wessex bass trumpets being played and I think one can achieve a really great bass trumpet sound with one. I want one, too, but I really don't need one. But the want is strong  Image
ttf_Exzaclee
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Thoughts on buying a cheap valve section for an existing bell/horn

Post by ttf_Exzaclee »

Wait for a cheap Yammy 200 series euph/baritone to come available for under 500.
ttf_growlerbox
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Thoughts on buying a cheap valve section for an existing bell/horn

Post by ttf_growlerbox »

I picked up a second-hand Jupiter valve trombone here for $500 NZ (about a buck fitty in US money, I believe).  The valves are great -- smooth, good compression.  The 3rd valve slide needs to be pulled quite a way and a bit of lip tuning employed to keep it honest, but it has a nice tone.

Addit: just stuck my Yammie 252 bell (apparently a Japan-only version of the 354, more or less) on the Jupiter valve section, and it fits seamlessly, so I assume the 354 would too, if you found a lone valve section somewhere.
ttf_BGuttman
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Thoughts on buying a cheap valve section for an existing bell/horn

Post by ttf_BGuttman »

I think the NZ dollar is US$0.73 so your $500 trombone would be more like $375 here.
ttf_davdud101
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Thoughts on buying a cheap valve section for an existing bell/horn

Post by ttf_davdud101 »

My mind is slowing getting more and more set on a bass trumpet. Been watching a lot of videos to get an idea of the tone quality - sounds just like what it is, something partway between a trumpet and a trombone. Haven't heard one 'pushed' yet though. In my mind, if I CAN'T score a good used valve trombone within 4 months, my late Christmas gift to myself will end up a shiny new bass trumpet.
It'd also help me save space when packing the van, I can imagine.

How could it sound in a 7-piece jazz combo? How about covering lead in big band? Is it by chance unwieldy - would it tire me out after the 2nd set?


Anyone with experience comparing Wessex's and MACK Brass's horns?
ttf_Exzaclee
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Thoughts on buying a cheap valve section for an existing bell/horn

Post by ttf_Exzaclee »

this is what a bass trumpet sounds like when pushed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GixE_T2lq5w

everytime I've had to do that solo, I've done it on trombone.
ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist
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Thoughts on buying a cheap valve section for an existing bell/horn

Post by ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist »

How much is the Wessex bass trumpet? $675? Brand new? If I could find just a handful of paid gigs with some buddies in a jazz combo that would pay for the horn. Not including practicing, and getting tunes to play if we don't play from what we already know. That seems fairly reasonable for a hobbiest like myself. I don't know your situation, but the satisfaction of experimenting is worth a lot to some people, too.

I don't think I'd be playing bass trumpet or even valve trombone in any of the big bands I play lead in. But I think I would be monumentally interesting in a small horn combo. It's on my Christmas wishlist, too!
ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist
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Thoughts on buying a cheap valve section for an existing bell/horn

Post by ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist »

How much is the Wessex bass trumpet? $675? Brand new? If I could find just a handful of paid gigs with some buddies in a jazz combo that would pay for the horn. Not including practicing, and getting tunes to play if we don't play from what we already know. That seems fairly reasonable for a hobbiest like myself. I don't know your situation, but the satisfaction of experimenting is worth a lot to some people, too.

I don't think I'd be playing bass trumpet or even valve trombone in any of the big bands I play lead in. But I think I would be monumentally interesting in a small horn combo. It's on my Christmas wishlist, too!
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