Would you buy an instrument without seeing it??

ttf_robinsjanis
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Would you buy an instrument without seeing it??

Post by ttf_robinsjanis » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:12 am

i think that also important is to write why you are selling this himorn. like - i dropped my trombone, so i'm selling it.

honest is a must.
ttf_dj kennedy
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Would you buy an instrument without seeing it??

Post by ttf_dj kennedy » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:18 pm

someday   pics  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
meanwhile
checkout
ATLANTIC STARR  ----SEND FOR ME  -------A SONG= STORY ABOUT A TROMBONE  ON YOUTUBE
ttf_dj kennedy
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Would you buy an instrument without seeing it??

Post by ttf_dj kennedy » Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:25 pm

 : Image Image Image Image Image Image-0 Image Image Image Image Image
====================
  you want pics  ???????????????????????????????????
BUY A PLAYBOY  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ttf_BGuttman
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Would you buy an instrument without seeing it??

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:34 pm

Quote from: robinsjanis on Aug 13, 2013, 12:12AMi think that also important is to write why you are selling this himorn. like - i dropped my trombone, so i'm selling it.

honest is a must.

There is an old slogan usually presented in Latin: caveat emptor (let the Buyer beware).

You have no way to determine if somebody is being truthful.  I could tell you that my trombone was personally given to me by Tommy Dorsey and you have no way to verify that it's true (it isn't).

We have a few people here who have been honest about their wares.  I wouldn't hesitate to buy a horn unseen from DJ Kennedy or Quinn the Eskimo.  But you have to have some kind of track record.
ttf_anonymous
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Would you buy an instrument without seeing it??

Post by ttf_anonymous » Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:48 am

Hi all, great topic. I recently bought a Schuster large bore Bb/F from Doug Bert in St Louis and had it shipped to me in Australia. I had been looking on the net for a while and found that both the Brass Exchange and Brass Ark gave good descriptions of the good and bad things on any horns they have for sale. And lots of photos of the good and bad bits. After corresponding with Doug, I had no qualms about such a purchase. The day it arrived, I went straight to big band practise and blew 4th 'bone for 2 1/2 hours without a problem. The horn was all Doug described. It is unfortunate that the used market in Aus is so small that it was easier getting a horn from the US. So do some research and go for it!
ttf_marccromme
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Would you buy an instrument without seeing it??

Post by ttf_marccromme » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:14 pm

Would I buy a trombone unseen - yes, I just did. Key is to gather all information available about it, to phone the seller and have along talk to her/him to be able to access the value of the instrument and it's pros and cons. Preferably to hear a third party about the instrument as well. Earlier I bought a Yamaha YSL-356G unseen, which was perfect but for a tiny dent in the slide which was easily fixed. Now I bought a Jinbao  YBSL-831S unseen. But not blindly! See http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,73120.0.html
ttf_salsabone
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Post by ttf_salsabone » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:14 pm

I have purchased a King 5B Symphony from Doug Bert.  He will not steer you wrong and you can trust his assesments of horn conditions! Image
ttf_dj kennedy
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Would you buy an instrument without seeing it??

Post by ttf_dj kennedy » Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:39 pm

i bought a 6h WITH pics  described  as having  typical conn plating  Image Image Image Image Image
 HA  !!!!!! R U  KIDDING  ??~~~~~~!!!!!!!!!!!!! Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
   huge chunks of  no plating --BOTH STOCKINGS 
was shined up  no closeups   Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
=========================================================
  i dont trust  pics  totally   Image Image Image Image Image

ttf_anonymous
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Would you buy an instrument without seeing it??

Post by ttf_anonymous » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:46 pm

Just another vote of confidence here for DJ.

I bought a King Tempo 1305 from him, and it arrived about a week or so ago.
It's condition is exactly as he described, and he packaged it for shipping really well (which is just as well becuase it got 'plonked' pretty hard on the ground by the courier as I signed for it).

Anyways, yeah. Just saying that I would not hesitate to buy from DJ again  Image

ttf_anonymous
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Post by ttf_anonymous » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:50 pm

Once I bought a baritone from Trade Me (NZ's ebay-facsimile), and when the package arrived I discovered that I had just bought my first tenor horn.  Image 
(got it dirt cheap and it wasn't worth the postage to return it to the sender)

What I don't understand is the number of ads I've seen where
1) the sellers write "played it for xx years", so obviously they're in the music game, not rank outsiders, and then
2) the ad says Jupiter, or Bach, or Yamaha trombone, but doesn't have the model number - you would think that a player would be interested in making their ad successful and that they would know that other players might want a particular model  Image


Loved DJ's note about the Bach '12', as determined by the mouthpiece 
probably seller was a guppy, but may have been a shark like the guy selling $1200 horns for $3000+
ttf_bassboneman
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Would you buy an instrument without seeing it??

Post by ttf_bassboneman » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:04 pm

Yup - but you gotta know or trust who you are buying from...
Another vote for Noah Gladstone!
Bought a Shires Single Valve Bass! I am very happy with it!...

Sam
ttf_gbedinger
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Post by ttf_gbedinger » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:31 pm

Quote from: bassboneman on Nov 16, 2013, 02:04PMYup - but you gotta know or trust who you are buying from...
Another vote for Noah Gladstone!
Bought a Shires Single Valve Bass! I am very happy with it!...

Sam

You bought that McAlexander-Hagmann Shires?  I almost bought that!
ttf_Trav1s
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Would you buy an instrument without seeing it??

Post by ttf_Trav1s » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:54 pm

I have purchased horns from 4 different members based only on pics.  They were as I expected.  My ebay experience as good (from a forum member and did not realize it) and several were typical to ebay.
ttf_dj kennedy
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Would you buy an instrument without seeing it??

Post by ttf_dj kennedy » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:47 pm

i  buy///trade  w/o  pics   all the time 
----------------
recently got a  6h  WITH PICS  --------
  well  the inners   had been polished
 DISGUISING   THE ROTTEN    DASTARDLY  DEED 
YES DREADED  PLATING  CRUST   Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
  PLATING FAILURE !!!!!!!!!!
--------------
this  trombone was returned   --cheaper than retube/time /expense 
----------AND  GOT IN  A TOTAL STINKER   W PICS
  PICS CAN NEVER  RELAY  THE  ODIFEROUS  STENCH  OF  BURIED BRASS


Quote from: LongmodelF on Aug 26, 2011, 04:50PMLooking through the classifieds for the first time I was suprised by the high percentage of entries without attached photographs. This puzzled me as I would certainly not buy an instrument without a least seeing a photo first. anyone out there who would?? and why??

ttf_Manexbi
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Would you buy an instrument without seeing it??

Post by ttf_Manexbi » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:12 am

Seeing a instrument with no trying it al all doesn't make you know it in my opinion. The ideal situation would be to try it... but as this is not possible most of time with used gear I feel that you have to trust the seller and if no, there is not any picture that can help you...
However pics are always aditional info to what seller says... and some horn-porn can't hurt...
ttf_jmtheob
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Would you buy an instrument without seeing it??

Post by ttf_jmtheob » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:30 am

Quote from: dj kennedy on Aug 23, 2013, 01:25PM : Image Image Image Image Image Image-0 Image Image Image Image Image
====================
  you want pics  ???????????????????????????????????
BUY A PLAYBOY  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They have trombones now??? Count me in!
ttf_BassCase
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Post by ttf_BassCase » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:53 pm

Greetings.  I've had great luck on Ebay.  If you know what to ask, you know what to listen for.  I often contact the seller to probe for details that an average shopper may otherwise miss.  If the seller sounds knowledgeable, than all the better.  I also look for offerings sold by pros.  They are very(usually) meticulous about the condition of their instruments.  I've purchased a 4B SilverSonorous and a lovely 6B.  Both in pristine shape and at reasonable cost.  Its all about the "hunt", which can be kinda fun, too.         
ttf_BGuttman
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Post by ttf_BGuttman » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:35 pm

>>Playboy for pictures...

Quote from: jmtheob on Dec 10, 2013, 03:30AMThey have trombones now??? Count me in!

If you want those kind of pictures, look at silver3B's "trombone stands". Image
ttf_RidingTheElkhart
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Post by ttf_RidingTheElkhart » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:48 am

I got a horn from DJ and from informarion heard, he is amazing so thank you DJ!!  Image
ttf_Radar
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Post by ttf_Radar » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:44 am

I've now bought two trombones off of E-bay sight unseen, and have been happy with both purchases.  The key is to look for sellers with positive feedback, who post realistic descriptions, with good pictures showing the good and bad points of the horn.  I also look for sellers who are willing to take the horn back if I'm not satisfied (although I realize I'll need to pay the return shipping should this happen).  It is getting very difficult to find horns locally, most music stores in this area don't deal with used instruments anymore, and they don't stock anything but the cheapest student models.  I've watched craigslist waiting for local horns that are what I'm looking to buy come up, and I'm just not that patient.  The only other option would be to drive 6 hours each way to NY City to test horns.  I might as well take my chances buying what I want off of E-bay on another on-line retailer and risk the possibility of having to pay return shipping than have to spend 12 hours in a car to try out a horn I may or may not buy.   
ttf_SilverBone
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Post by ttf_SilverBone » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:05 pm

I have purchased a number of instruments/parts from forum members.  All those transactions went very well.

Buying from eBay was not as good, but I never got really burned on anything.
ttf_dj kennedy
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Post by ttf_dj kennedy » Sun May 18, 2014 9:35 am

nubie flea market  freedy       hasnt read  this thread yet
ttf_Sliphorn
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Would you buy an instrument without seeing it??

Post by ttf_Sliphorn » Sun May 18, 2014 6:34 pm

Yes.  I have done it many times, and it usually worked out alright.
ttf_dj kennedy
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Post by ttf_dj kennedy » Mon May 19, 2014 1:12 pm

another attempt     got a  kodak ez  share    almost like the 8th grade girl  that  made it look so  ez
  over here --so i get the camera  --icon --nothin   
hours of   frustration 
   she comes back  --he  cam    shows CANON  ???????????????? on the computer
 now attempting    android       pics    and pulling chip etc
==========================================

ttf_BGuttman
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Post by ttf_BGuttman » Mon May 19, 2014 2:53 pm

Quote from: dj kennedy on May 19, 2014, 01:12PManother attempt     got a  kodak ez  share    almost like the 8th grade girl  that  made it look so  ez
  over here --so i get the camera  --icon --nothin   
hours of   frustration 
   she comes back  --he  cam    shows CANON  ???????????????? on the computer
 now attempting    android       pics    and pulling chip etc
==========================================


Interesting.  I have a Kodak EZ Share 7 Megapixel (712? 710?).  Reminded me of my old SLR.  Lotsa features but lousy battery life.

Plugged it into my Windoze XP computer through the USB port and it offered to download all the pictures into a folder (not Canon).  Works great except that the pictures in native format are not allowed into my TTF gallery; I have to convert them to JPGs and reduce the pixel resolution.  Haven't had an opportunity to plug it into my Windoze 7 machine yet.
ttf_dj kennedy
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Post by ttf_dj kennedy » Tue May 20, 2014 2:08 am

eats   batteries  --i am using a mac osx  10.7.5



Quote from: BGuttman on May 19, 2014, 02:53PMInteresting.  I have a Kodak EZ Share 7 Megapixel (712? 710?).  Reminded me of my old SLR.  Lotsa features but lousy battery life.

Plugged it into my Windoze XP computer through the USB port and it offered to download all the pictures into a folder (not Canon).  Works great except that the pictures in native format are not allowed into my TTF gallery; I have to convert them to JPGs and reduce the pixel resolution.  Haven't had an opportunity to plug it into my Windoze 7 machine yet.

ttf_anonymous
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Post by ttf_anonymous » Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:03 am

We did buy a Yamaha Xeno. Without seeing it or trying from a very respected seller on here. It worked out very well. My son has been playing it for two years and everything is great. It did arrive with a gouge on the bell that I wasn't expecting. (Must have happened in shipping)But it looks almost exactly like his friends' and we paid about half the price. It plays perfectly. We were able to get it fixed for $100.00 and it looked about 97-98% new. It worked out well for us. But if you are burned you would feel dumb for a long time. I guess I would say buy from someone with a good reputation.

ttf_morelsbone
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Would you buy an instrument without seeing it??

Post by ttf_morelsbone » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:15 am

Probably not. I'm very particular on my horns so unless it was the right one from the right person, I just don't think I would.
ttf_jmtheob
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Post by ttf_jmtheob » Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:01 pm

I have bought 4 bass trombones without trying them first. 1 from a forum member, 3 from reputable dealers. Haven't had any problems but I ask a lot of questions before buying.  Stores usually charge considerably more, and individuals are often far away.  You do take a chance but if you have good intuition and trust the person you are dealing with, you are probably OK.
ttf_dj kennedy
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Post by ttf_dj kennedy » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:38 pm

i do it all the time  !!!!!!!!!!!!!
ttf_anonymous
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Post by ttf_anonymous » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:44 am

Yes.  I have often done so, but not without talking to the seller -- sometimes more than once. 

I have bought a few pieces of scrap metal over the years, but I have also  bought several fabulous pro horns for peanuts sight unseen.

I put more stock in a conversation with the seller than in a blurry image anyway.   I find it easy to discern the likelihood of a happy transaction by talking to the seller and asking several questions about the horns condition and lineage.  When I look back on the bad buys there was always a subconscious red flag hovering over the conversation. The trick for me is to learn to trust my instincts about the seller.

It takes a lot of work to find those fantastic horns that are just taking up valuable closet space, but the rewards from finding one make it worth the effort.

ttf_leec
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Post by ttf_leec » Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:45 pm

I have bought three horns without seeing or playing them.  I have however at least seen pictures.  The first one was a Pbone which I re-sold for what I paid for it quite quickly.  The second was a Yamaha YSL-354 so I could have an identical horn at the cottage which is water access only. It was actually newer than my first, ex-rental Yamaha

The third was a Conn 4H bell and Yamaha slide combo.  The Conn bell is super light!  It makes the Yamaha slide feel quite heavy.  I`m finding this a difficult horn to get a consistent, mellow sound from, compare to the Yamaha.  Hopefully as I improve, I`ll grow into it.

Learning all the time

Lee
ttf_salsabone
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Post by ttf_salsabone » Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:37 pm

Lee,
If you bought that trombone(Conn 4H bell with a Yamaha slide) from Dillon's I know of its origins.  PM if this is true.
Kevin
ttf_crazytrombonist505
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Post by ttf_crazytrombonist505 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:57 am

I bought all my trombones on eBay without looking at them in-person beforehand (I obviously looked at the photos).  They are all great trombones, and were totally worth it.  Image
ttf_anonymous
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Post by ttf_anonymous » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:08 am

attempting to post
ttf_Blackthorne
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Post by ttf_Blackthorne » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:24 am

Quote from: crazytrombonist505 on Oct 16, 2016, 04:57AMI bought all my trombones on eBay without looking at them in-person beforehand (I obviously looked at the photos).  They are all great trombones, and were totally worth it.  Image

Same here.  I've bought four trombones and a trumpet on eBay and have had no complaints about any of them.
ttf_anonymous
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Would you buy an instrument without seeing it??

Post by ttf_anonymous » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:15 am

I've had mixed experiences with buying sight-unseen. I bought a Conn 88H for a good price off of ebay and I've had a great time playing it. I also picked up a 1911 York & Sons trombone that happened to have a hole in the inner slide, so that was a bit of a heart breaker.
ttf_stealthheartocarinaZ
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Would you buy an instrument without seeing it??

Post by ttf_stealthheartocarinaZ » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:36 am

No, no, no, please no, do not buy an instrument without seeing it.

If you know the seller and they are trustworthy, buy at your own risk, but if you don't, don't take any chances. I bought a saxophone that I hadn't seen about one or two years back and it turned out to have this part of it that controls the octave it plays broken, and now I'm playing the trombone, so...  Image
ttf_Euphanasia
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Post by ttf_Euphanasia » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:56 am

Quote from: stealthheartocarinaZ on Dec 04, 2016, 07:36AM and now I'm playing the trombone, so...  Image

So your story has a happy ending!!!!   Image
ttf_ISAB
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Post by ttf_ISAB » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:52 am

Depends on the brand
I'd probably buy one from Yamaha because they are consistent
ttf_Geezerhorn
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Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:06 am

ALL of my horns to date have been bought sight-unseen. The ones I didn't like got re-sold. As long as I don't pay too much for them in the first place, so what?

But something I have learned - at least from buying off eBay - is if no one else with a credible buying history is bidding on it, then whether it's over-priced or not; whether it's a good horn or not, there evidently isn't a good resale value for that horn, so I won't bid on it either. I like buying horns where there is a good amount of incremental bidding activity and other auctions of similar horns in similar condition have shown the current bidding is a good comp.

...Geezer
ttf_deanmccarty
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Post by ttf_deanmccarty » Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:01 am

If you frequent the forum enough you grow to "know" certain people.  I have purchased several horns off the forum, and have sold a few.  My best purchase... sight unseen... a Rath R3 in MINT condition!  It is my favorite horn that I own... and I got it for $1500!!! I am a believer in the forum classifieds!
ttf_daveyboy37
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Post by ttf_daveyboy37 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:24 pm

This is why people like to deal with stores like Dillon Music, Ferguson Music, Baltimore Brass, the Brass Ark, etc, as well as private individuals like DJ Kennedy, Quinn the Eskimo, and so forth. They have a good reputation, and if they say it's a good horn, you can expect to receive a good horn. You also will get some good reviews on new horns from Ferguson Music, which is always a plus.
ttf_robinsjanis
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Post by ttf_robinsjanis » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:07 am

Guys in Latvia risk and buy all of the horns unseen. And that was worth the risk! They sound awesome!
ttf_dj kennedy
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Post by ttf_dj kennedy » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:28 pm

dillon's  pics are nothin to brag about   Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image


Quote from: daveyboy37 on Dec 06, 2016, 01:24PMThis is why people like to deal with stores like Dillon Music, Ferguson Music, Baltimore Brass, the Brass Ark, etc, as well as private individuals like DJ Kennedy, Quinn the Eskimo, and so forth. They have a good reputation, and if they say it's a good horn, you can expect to receive a good horn. You also will get some good reviews on new horns from Ferguson Music, which is always a plus.

ttf_BillO
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Post by ttf_BillO » Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:21 am

Quote from: dj kennedy on Dec 08, 2016, 05:28PMdillon's  pics are nothin to brag about   Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
Agreed.  Click on "View larger image" and you often get a smaller image.  At the best of times their largest images are useless for making a buying decision.
ttf_stealthheartocarinaZ
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Post by ttf_stealthheartocarinaZ » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:24 pm

Quote from: Euphanasia on Dec 04, 2016, 07:56AMSo your story has a happy ending!!!!   Image

Haha yes, you are right about that! I like the trombone much better than the sax, and I'm glad I ended up with it in the end.  Image
ttf_LongmodelF
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Post by ttf_LongmodelF » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:52 am

Wow, I started this thread in 2011. Never expected it to be still running at the end of 2016!
ttf_2olbones
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Post by ttf_2olbones » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:41 pm

I have purchased 4 horns from Mick Rath, an R-10 during a visit to his shop, an unseen R3F from a dealer in Calgary, an unseen R4 from a dealer in Boston MA, and an R9D from Dillon music in New Jersey.  I still have them all and use them when appropriate, but favor my bass trombone now.  I would continue to risk a Rath purchase but only from Mick or from Dillon's.
ttf_anonymous
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Post by ttf_anonymous » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:08 am

Only once and only because of the rarity of the instrument did I make a deal for something I could not try out first. Each and every other instrument I have ever purchased has been after extensive play testing and visual inspection, even with brand spankin' new horns. Not everything I've played suited me so in my case it pays off in the long run to be picky. Plus, the only horn I got sight unseen was a trade so when the trade took place in my home, we both had an opportunity to back out of the trade. A couple of months ago I found an instrument on Craigslist that had photos which told part of the story. When I met the seller to complete the sale I still had a chance to look it over. If it had been a case of the seller being out of state and shipping to me, I would not have bothered.

Bottom line is I would not under normal circumstances buy without seeing. The exception would be from musicians I know personally or by reputation that are as picky as I am. Still no guarantee.
If Gerry Pagano was selling a horn I'd probably bite because he and I have similar likes and dislikes in setups. The possibility always remains that I might not love it, but I'd take a chance in that case because the odds of my liking it are very high.

PS-The most recent horn I purchased was well documented with photos (it was clear across country) and the seller I have known for years. There was the element of how rare it was so that was a factor, and I am a very happy camper as a result.
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