Horn questions and input

[Thrawn22]

So its coming on tax season and i have a hankering for a horn buying!


I play principle a community symphony, a brass ensemble and various bigbands. For the legit side of things i use a mid to late 90s 8HT that a girlfriend had bought me because i expressed a faint interest in it. After it rolling off the top of my car after a week of owning it and crumpling the bell, making the bell section madular, putting a Bach 42 pipe in the slide and having various factory defects corrected, it has become a great playing horn. My Ponderourance is that for the symphony and smaller chamber groups, would a medium bore horn or a dual bore .525/.547 make it easier to play higher and have more endurance playing symphony parts and blend better in smaller groups?

Now I'm no weekend warrior, but I'm no college kid putting in 20+ hours a day honing my craft. Im pushing 40 with a debilitating condition (KIDS!) that allows me a couple of hours a day to keep my chops from playing like crap. So spending way too much time thinking about this i have come to several options that i hope one will lead to a satisfactory conclusion. The problem I'm having is that i have no idea how these options will play, so I'm asking for input to help me to a cost effective solution.

Option 1. Get a dual bore .525/.547 slide.

Finding one of these slides to try is a pain in the ass! That being said, the only input i can find on this subject is a forum member who conveted their Edwards slide to dual bore and absolutely nutted over it, and a friend who played principle with Phoenix Symphony and didn't dig how his blew. My friend said for the upper register it was great but at the sacrifice of being able to play the lower register with any power. Now I'm looking for ease in the upper range and figured that the low end may not speak as well. Thoughts?

Option 2. Buy a 78H.

I'm a Conn aficionado. I LOVE all things Conn. Hate Bachs. ABSOLUTELY hate Bachs. So i want a 78H. I feel like Nicholas Cage (not crazy) in "Gone in 60 seconds", where he's a the Ferrari shop bullshiting the salesman saying that if he bought a vintage model Ferrari he'd be a connoisseur instead of a douchebag. Thats how i feel about the 78H. I'll be in the club of very trombonist who own, love, play and intend to die and be buried with their 78Hs.

But I've heard mixed reviews.

Having never played one and heard them characterized as "marching band" or "concert band" horns, I'm afraid of buying one and being bummed i got a lemon, as these horns are impossible to find and try out. Thoughts?

Option 3. Crazy ass idea!

I play in a 6H for all things commercial. I'm a fan of 8in bells. If i buy a 78H, I'll have another 8in bell horn. I wouldn't be able to put my 6H slide on it obviously. But, would i be able to put a 32H slide on it? If i could, I'd have a 2 in 1 trombone. 1 bell 2 slides. A horn for almost all occasions. I had a 6H i converted (years ago) to be a 32H and it played well. Thoughts?

Thats it for now. I'd appreciate any thoughts, suggestions, leads on horns etc.

I'm selling a 100H by the way if anyone is interested. Or willing to trade for one of the above items .

Thanks.

[Specialk3700]

I think option 1 would be a great way to go. I've heard a lot of good things regarding smaller slides when playing first trombone or in a smaller ensembles. Also this gives you the flexibility to use the .547 slide you already have or a .525/.547 depending on the music. The horn guys have a pretty good write up on all the Conn slide options. https://www.hornguys.com/products/conn- ... hand-slide

[Burgerbob]

78H is an amazing horn. 79H is even better.

[Rusty]

I have an Elkhart 88h and 62h that I really like, and was able to try a vintage 78h. It played nicely but I was a little underwhelmed and found it wasn’t as open as my .508 Shires MD+ or played with as full a sound or as much depth.

[Trav1s]

So its coming on tax season and i have a hankering for a horn buying!


I play principle a community symphony, a brass ensemble and various bigbands. For the legit side of things i use a mid to late 90s 8HT that a girlfriend had bought me because i expressed a faint interest in it. After it rolling off the top of my car after a week of owning it and crumpling the bell, making the bell section madular, putting a Bach 42 pipe in the slide and having various factory defects corrected, it has become a great playing horn. My Ponderourance is that for the symphony and smaller chamber groups, would a medium bore horn or a dual bore .525/.547 make it easier to play higher and have more endurance playing symphony parts and blend better in smaller groups?

Now I'm no weekend warrior, but I'm no college kid putting in 20+ hours a day honing my craft. Im pushing 40 with a debilitating condition (KIDS!) that allows me a couple of hours a day to keep my chops from playing like crap. So spending way too much time thinking about this i have come to several options that i hope one will lead to a satisfactory conclusion. The problem I'm having is that i have no idea how these options will play, so I'm asking for input to help me to a cost effective solution.

Option 1. Get a dual bore .525/.547 slide.

Finding one of these slides to try is a pain in the ass! That being said, the only input i can find on this subject is a forum member who conveted their Edwards slide to dual bore and absolutely nutted over it, and a friend who played principle with Phoenix Symphony and didn't dig how his blew. My friend said for the upper register it was great but at the sacrifice of being able to play the lower register with any power. Now I'm looking for ease in the upper range and figured that the low end may not speak as well. Thoughts?

Option 2. Buy a 78H.

I'm a Conn aficionado. I LOVE all things Conn. Hate Bachs. ABSOLUTELY hate Bachs. So i want a 78H. I feel like Nicholas Cage (not crazy) in "Gone in 60 seconds", where he's a the Ferrari shop bullshiting the salesman saying that if he bought a vintage model Ferrari he'd be a connoisseur instead of a douchebag. Thats how i feel about the 78H. I'll be in the club of very trombonist who own, love, play and intend to die and be buried with their 78Hs.

But I've heard mixed reviews.

Having never played one and heard them characterized as "marching band" or "concert band" horns, I'm afraid of buying one and being bummed i got a lemon, as these horns are impossible to find and try out. Thoughts?

Option 3. Crazy ass idea!

I play in a 6H for all things commercial. I'm a fan of 8in bells. If i buy a 78H, I'll have another 8in bell horn. I wouldn't be able to put my 6H slide on it obviously. But, would i be able to put a 32H slide on it? If i could, I'd have a 2 in 1 trombone. 1 bell 2 slides. A horn for almost all occasions. I had a 6H i converted (years ago) to be a 32H and it played well. Thoughts?

Thats it for now. I'd appreciate any thoughts, suggestions, leads on horns etc.

I'm selling a 100H by the way if anyone is interested. Or willing to trade for one of the above items .

Thanks.

Currently own a 1932H, 1969 79H, and Texas 80H (78H with 8" red brass bell). I have also owned a Texas 77H and an early 60's 78H. The 79H and 80H are keeps and the 32H is currently looking for a new home. As of now all of my horns have the original fixed lead pipes in place.

As to the 78H sounding like a marching band horn - Not been the case for me and I have some thoughts about that. First off, it will not sound like a .547" horn but can get close. Sone like it and others do not. I works well for me so I stick with it. Next, mouthpiece matters more than I initially realized. I have a C+ and D cup for my DE combo. While both work, the D gives a fuller and mellow sound. The C+ gives the horn more bite but does not play as well for me. This holds true with the 80H.

32H bell uses the same receiver as the 78H/79H/50H.

My 1939 32H has the 7.5" bell and swapping to the 8" red brass bell from my early Texas 80H makes for an interesting combo. Mellow sound but lacked the focus the the smaller bell offers. The last time I tried the combo I did not have a mouthpiece that worked for me on the smaller horns. I have since picked up a DE combo that I need to try on the 32H slide...

I also tried the 32H slide on the 79H bell but that is physically awkward - the 32H slide is narrower and puts the trigger up against my face. Sound was interesting too. Likewise, the 79H slide on the 32H bell offers something different but can't quite name what it is.


Want to buy a 32H?

[Vegasbound]

Go visit DJ, try everything buy what works for you....too Misquote Sam Burtis

[Thrawn22]

Go visit DJ, try everything buy what works for you....too Misquote Sam Burtis

I didn't dig my last experience with dj so i avoid him.

[Thrawn22]

Currently own a 1932H, 1969 79H, and Texas 80H (78H with 8" red brass bell). I have also owned a Texas 77H and an early 60's 78H. The 79H and 80H are keeps and the 32H is currently looking for a new home. As of now all of my horns have the original fixed lead pipes in place.

As to the 78H sounding like a marching band horn - Not been the case for me and I have some thoughts about that. First off, it will not sound like a .547" horn but can get close. Sone like it and others do not. I works well for me so I stick with it. Next, mouthpiece matters more than I initially realized. I have a C+ and D cup for my DE combo. While both work, the D gives a fuller and mellow sound. The C+ gives the horn more bite but does not play as well for me. This holds true with the 80H.

32H bell uses the same receiver as the 78H/79H/50H.

My 1939 32H has the 7.5" bell and swapping to the 8" red brass bell from my early Texas 80H makes for an interesting combo. Mellow sound but lacked the focus the the smaller bell offers. The last time I tried the combo I did not have a mouthpiece that worked for me on the smaller horns. I have since picked up a DE combo that I need to try on the 32H slide...

I also tried the 32H slide on the 79H bell but that is physically awkward - the 32H slide is narrower and puts the trigger up against my face. Sound was interesting too. Likewise, the 79H slide on the 32H bell offers something different but can't quite name what it is.


Want to buy a 32H?

Lol. I may be interested in your 32H so ill keep you in mind.

I agree about mpc mattering. I used a 6 1/2A with my 8HT and it got the job done. Then i started with the symphony so i felt i needed something more legit. I found a Griego CS5 for cheap and it really made the difference. I tried a Griego Deco 5 (lighter blank) on my 8H and it didn't speak as well. Mpc weight certainly plays a part in the sound I've found. So far, the Griego CS mouthpieces work fantastic for my bass and large bore. I have a CS7 I've been waiting to try on a medium bore horn to see if the same majic will happen.

[sf105]

I really like my 32H, great fun to play and flexible. It really woke up when I add period Conn 2 and 3 mouthpieces (as against various Bach 6 equivalents), so it looks like the mouthpiece matters a lot.

[Thrawn22]

I really like my 32H, great fun to play and flexible. It really woke up when I add period Conn 2 and 3 mouthpieces (as against various Bach 6 equivalents), so it looks like the mouthpiece matters a lot.

I played a Conn 3 for a while. I think i just preferred how C cup mouthpieces play vs. the V cup mouthpieces.

[JLivi]

Dillon Music has 4 used 78h's for sale right now. I'm not sure if they have a trial period policy, but It might be worth looking into. It looks like the prices range from $900-1200.

https://www.dillonmusic.com/search/conn ... 5B%5D=6824

FWIW, I've been messing around with a 74h (8.5" rose bell w/ medium bore slide). I think of it as an 8h with a medium bore slide. I absolutely love the horn, but I'm coming from a small bore (.508 bore). I mainly play funk/pop music and teach at 4 high schools. I've found that the openness of the 74h has been great to get my point across about sound concept to my high school kids. Also for my wedding gigs where I have to switch between playing a 2nd trumpet part on trombone and then double a bass line in the next tune, it's been fun!

My only issue is that the 74h is a straight horn. What I recently did, was buy a cheaper Artist Symphony 88h and switched out the bell receiver on the 74h slide so I can have a valve (basically same bell), on the medium bore slide. So I paired the 88h bell with the 74h slide. Surprisingly, the work wasn't too expensive, but I did have to buy 2 trombones But I was able to patiently wait on eBay to get the two horns for a total of $1300.

The only issue with this is that I can no longer use the 74h bell with it's slide. And the 88h slide at this point is not functional. Now I could pair the 74h bell with the 88h slide and have a true 8h and then I would have two functioning horns, but I'm currently in the trial period of this. If I end up not liking the 88h bell on the 74h slide, I can always reverse it. If I end up liking my new setup, I'm probably going pair the other two parts I have.

I know that's a lot of nonsense, so if you made it this far, congratulations! Sorry for rambling.

[hyperbolica]

I own a 32h, 79h and an Elkhart 88h w/525 and 547 slides. I play mostly in community orchestras, trombone choir, and trombone quartet.

My go to horn for any general playing including high notes is my 79h. 79h is not the same as a 78h. I've never played a 78h that I liked. It gets too bright at high volume. They used to be a go to horn for symphonic playing, I just don't like them.

The 88h with the 525 slide is really an amazing horn. It's like an 88h, but even lighter (sound and feel) and more nimble. Don't bother with the 525/547, it's not a big enough difference.

The 79h is actually a little darker than the 88h w/525. It's more compact and slightly darker - in my view perfect for small orchestra. I also love the wider slide. Perfect trombone. With a DE G cup, it can handle anything a community group would throw at you. With a smaller D or even C cup, it takes on a little bit of an alto sound, and the upper range is very nice.

32h slide does fit the 79h, but I don't think either benefits from the swap. 32h makes me feel like I'm playing a small bore horn, but I still get a fat sound. I've never used this in orchestra, but I think it would be most appropriate for a jazz or show tune medley, not heavy classical stuff.

So we're all kind of converging on the 79h for you. Personally, I think you might find a 78h and add a valve to it. I think the 78h is probably just too light.

My 79h was rescued. The bell was smashed, so I bought a 50s 78h with a 7.75 red bell and swapped bells. I really love it, in case I haven't mentioned that before. Noah Gladstone loves the older 78hs. Maybe you should try one of those. You might even talk to Noah.

Anyway, good luck.

[Thrawn22]

Dillon Music has 4 used 78h's for sale right now. I'm not sure if they have a trial period policy, but It might be worth looking into. It looks like the prices range from $900-1200.

https://www.dillonmusic.com/search/conn ... 5B%5D=6824

FWIW, I've been messing around with a 74h (8.5" rose bell w/ medium bore slide). I think of it as an 8h with a medium bore slide. I absolutely love the horn, but I'm coming from a small bore (.508 bore). I mainly play funk/pop music and teach at 4 high schools. I've found that the openness of the 74h has been great to get my point across about sound concept to my high school kids. Also for my wedding gigs where I have to switch between playing a 2nd trumpet part on trombone and then double a bass line in the next tune, it's been fun!

My only issue is that the 74h is a straight horn. What I recently did, was buy a cheaper Artist Symphony 88h and switched out the bell receiver on the 74h slide so I can have a valve (basically same bell), on the medium bore slide. So I paired the 88h bell with the 74h slide. Surprisingly, the work wasn't too expensive, but I did have to buy 2 trombones But I was able to patiently wait on eBay to get the two horns for a total of $1300.

The only issue with this is that I can no longer use the 74h bell with it's slide. And the 88h slide at this point is not functional. Now I could pair the 74h bell with the 88h slide and have a true 8h and then I would have two functioning horns, but I'm currently in the trial period of this. If I end up not liking the 88h bell on the 74h slide, I can always reverse it. If I end up liking my new setup, I'm probably going pair the other two parts I have.

I know that's a lot of nonsense, so if you made it this far, congratulations! Sorry for rambling.

I had a friend who had a 74H. I wasn't that all impressed with it and the fact that the bell section was practically an 8H was an added turn off. Its good to know that the receivers are different.

[Thrawn22]

I own a 32h, 79h and an Elkhart 88h w/525 and 547 slides. I play mostly in community orchestras, trombone choir, and trombone quartet.

My go to horn for any general playing including high notes is my 79h. 79h is not the same as a 78h. I've never played a 78h that I liked. It gets too bright at high volume. They used to be a go to horn for symphonic playing, I just don't like them.

The 88h with the 525 slide is really an amazing horn. It's like an 88h, but even lighter (sound and feel) and more nimble. Don't bother with the 525/547, it's not a big enough difference.

The 79h is actually a little darker than the 88h w/525. It's more compact and slightly darker - in my view perfect for small orchestra. I also love the wider slide. Perfect trombone. With a DE G cup, it can handle anything a community group would throw at you. With a smaller D or even C cup, it takes on a little bit of an alto sound, and the upper range is very nice.

32h slide does fit the 79h, but I don't think either benefits from the swap. 32h makes me feel like I'm playing a small bore horn, but I still get a fat sound. I've never used this in orchestra, but I think it would be most appropriate for a jazz or show tune medley, not heavy classical stuff.

So we're all kind of converging on the 79h for you. Personally, I think you might find a 78h and add a valve to it. I think the 78h is probably just too light.

My 79h was rescued. The bell was smashed, so I bought a 50s 78h with a 7.75 red bell and swapped bells. I really love it, in case I haven't mentioned that before. Noah Gladstone loves the older 78hs. Maybe you should try one of those. You might even talk to Noah.

Anyway, good luck.

79Hs are even harder to find it seems. Noah right now has everything i want to try. I'd feel bad just calling him up to try equipment i can't purchase right away. Although, the added benefit is I'd be able to try out his leadpipe inventory.

[JLivi]

A 78h just went up for sale on trombone marketplace on Facebook for only $600. That might be cheap enough to give it a shot, and then sell it if you don't like it. Easier to say when it's not my money

[Thrawn22]

A 78h just went up for sale on trombone marketplace on Facebook for only $600. That might be cheap enough to give it a shot, and then sell it if you don't like it. Easier to say when it's not my money

Lol. I just saq it and i messaged the guy. It looks like he may live in my area too!

[Grahambone]

FWIW, the 74H bell section is different than the 8H bell section. It’s more like a 50H set up in the gooseneck and tuning slide.

Graham

[Andre1966tr]

I play a 78H and I also had a 88HT with the double bore and two leadpipes.
The 88H was a very nice playing horn but I prefer the 78H being more flexible and faster. I love to blow on the horn, a real pleasure, like driving a Ferrari
A cheap option is the Yamaha 683G, the successor of the 645 but more smooth and rounder in sound. 8 bell
Very near to the 78H

[hyperbolica]

A cheap option is the Yamaha 683G, the successor of the 645 but more smooth and rounder in sound. 8 bell
Very near to the 78H

Those Yamahas are 8.5" bells, and discontinued, just for info. 630/640 are the new models (straight/F att).
https://www.thebrass-exchange.com/conte ... s-525-bore
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical ... oduct-tabs

[Jimkinkella]

I have a '53 78H sitting around and available, you're welcome to check it out if you're in the Los Angeles area.

[Thrawn22]

I have a '53 78H sitting around and available, you're welcome to check it out if you're in the Los Angeles area.

I messaged you last night and i didn't hear back.

[Jimkinkella]

Different guy, I'm not the one on Facebook...

[Thrawn22]

Different guy, I'm not the one on Facebook...

My apologies.

[Trav1s]

My 1939 32H has the 7.5" bell and swapping to the 8" red brass bell from my early Texas 80H makes for an interesting combo. Mellow sound but lacked the focus the the smaller bell offers. The last time I tried the combo I did not have a mouthpiece that worked for me on the smaller horns. I have since picked up a DE combo that I need to try on the 32H slide...

To revisit the above statement...

I tried the LT101/C+/D2 combo on the 32H yesterday and the sound is great - what I hoped for when I picked up the horn. I will play around with the 8" red brass bell today and share thoughts on that combo. Not sure if I want to sell the 32H after this little adventure.

[Thrawn22]

Lol. Dammit!

[Trav1s]

Lol. Dammit!

I could use the cash...

[Thrawn22]

Lol. Dammit!

I could use the cash...

I hear ya.

[Thrawn22]

So, thanks to Jimkinkella, i was able to try out everything i had questions on.

I bought his '53 78H, and its FREAKING fantastic. Its doing what i thought i wanted it to do in the settings i thought id need it for. I need to sit with it more, but thus far, the feedback has been positive.

He had a dual bore .525/.547 slide and a 88HLT bell and a Heavier texas 8H bell (both stellar horns), and the lighter bell section worked awesome with the slide. Not so much with the heavier bell.

He didn't have a 32H slide to try on the be 78H bell, but i think i can remedy that.

Thanks to everyone and especially jim.

[harrisonreed]

My 1939 32H has the 7.5" bell and swapping to the 8" red brass bell from my early Texas 80H makes for an interesting combo. Mellow sound but lacked the focus the the smaller bell offers. The last time I tried the combo I did not have a mouthpiece that worked for me on the smaller horns. I have since picked up a DE combo that I need to try on the 32H slide...

To revisit the above statement...

I tried the LT101/C+/D2 combo on the 32H yesterday and the sound is great - what I hoped for when I picked up the horn. I will play around with the 8" red brass bell today and share thoughts on that combo. Not sure if I want to sell the 32H after this little adventure.

The C+/D combo is killer for small bore horns!

[mcphatty00]

To revisit the above statement...

I tried the LT101/C+/D2 combo on the 32H yesterday and the sound is great - what I hoped for when I picked up the horn. I will play around with the 8" red brass bell today and share thoughts on that combo. Not sure if I want to sell the 32H after this little adventure.

I'll vouch for this. I just got the MT 102-C+/D. Feels/sounds amazing on both my 100H and Liberty.

The C+/D combo is killer for small bore horns!

I'll vouch for this. I got my MT 102, C+/D last week and it's outstanding on both my 100H and Liberty.

[amoss1s]

Try a Rath! Interchangeable parts, great sound.

[amoss1s]

My friend made the switch from his Conn to a Rath and loved it