What to look for in a music school

[bassbone721]

Hi everyone,
I'm currently a high school senior and now I have received news from my colleges. I want find out from more experienced players what they valued from their time in school and what advice they would give in choosing schools.
Thanks,
Ryan

[Burgerbob]

1. teacher
2. price
3. rest of the program

I went to a very cheap undergrad. Was it amazing? No, but I did learn things and pave my way for grad school. I went to an ok grad school, but one with a great teacher, and I had a full assistantship so it was free. The music program in general didn't blow my socks off, but great college ensembles are just icing on a cake, not the cake itself.

[harrisonreed]

I'd look for whatever program has the highest rate of people winning a job and not completing the program. If you can't get into that program, I'd be very careful about pursuing it further.

If you're planning on studying audio engineering and digital music production, it's a different story. That might be a great idea.

Going to school for music without a 100% free tuition and a scholarship/stipend is not a very smart move. Currently there is almost no live paid music going on in the world, and we don't know what live music will look like after this.

[norbie2018]

Currently there is almost no live paid music going on in the world, and we don't know what live music will look like after this.

That is something to take under deep consideration before embarking on a playing career, if that's what you're looking for. You didn't specify what you likely will major in (performance, ed, composition, etc.) and that may be important for some to know before giving suggestions.

These are the things I wish I would have taken better advantage of while in school: Wherever you go develop your singing so that everything that appears on the page you can sing in tune. Spend your time listening to music - especially but not exclusively trombone. Record yourself on a daily basis and listen back with a patient but discerning ear. Take lessons with as many teachers as possible and record those lessons or take notes immediately afterwards so you have a record of what was covered. And have fun.

[thatme]

I’m often amazed that sometimes the best professional players went to super no-name schools. The cream always rises to the top. Focus on price and teacher.

[WilliamLang]

i might recommend trying out as many music related classes as you can - try to get experience teaching, recording, in music therapy, take a composition course and a business class if possible. the future looks like it's going to reward people who have a larger toolbox of skills to draw on.

it's hard to know what else to say without knowing a lot about you. do you have musical goals in mind? for most people very often they will change over time, and that's ok. ask for help from trusted sources and keep an open mind. best of luck!

[SimmonsTrombone]

Be sure the course of study you want is actually open to you. I wanted to study composition. After enrolling in an even numbered year, I learned that composition courses only began in the odd numbered years, so I wasn’t allowed in.

[VJOFan]

University is very much about developing as a person, and of all degree programs I think music can help develop an individual the most: you will spend hours of individual time with someone who has had at least some level of success in your chosen field of study.

With that filter in mind I offer these reflections on three personal experiences.

My undergrad was at one of the largest music schools in my country. There the focus of my teacher and the department in general was on skills and developing as a musician. I improved a lot but was still not ready to be employable as a person.

I went to grad school and it was totally different. Still a big school but the teacher was almost totally focussed on developing the person and not necessarily the player. (Although weekly masterclasses where we had to critique each other’s playing did tend to focus the practice habits.) After a year of being in that environment I had things together enough to earn a chair in an orchestra.

As happens, the trombone chair led to teaching at the local, very, very small university music school. That place was amazing. With only two full time professor and an enrolment of dozens, not hundreds, the students all thrived as people. Very few wanted to be professional players but virtually all of them became wonderful adults through their four years and went on to flourish in whatever they chose to do next.

So my basic advice is to go, unless you already feel you are an adult who is ready except for your music skills, where you think you will be cared for, valued and pushed all at the same time.

[Gary]

It depends on what your goals are.

In all cases, decide where you are most comfortable, large city or more remote town.
Keep costs down at the BA level when possible.

If Mus Ed, get a well balanced program and make sure your major professor is well connected. If playing is a major auxiliary concern, make sure that the program has good performance teaching and a variety of ensembles to lead and play in.

Performance major, go for the professor first, but make sure you don't get attracted to his name only to get stuck with a teaching assistant. Many are good, but they come and go, and that's not why you went there in the first place.

Playing opportunities. Some schools are self-contained and it doesn't matter what the surrounding communities offer. I went to UNT and, believe me, there was more than you can handle. But for others, it's a good idea to have other playing opportunities in surrounding communities. Just make sure that if that's the case, that the school has an understanding that you will get college credit for it.
- Also, some schools have "consortium" arrangement with other schools in the area, where you can study but still get credit at your home school.

[hyperbolica]

After going to 2 different music schools, I learned a few things that might benefit you. The first school I went to had a very good ensemble program but my teacher was only so-so. The second school I went to had a great teacher, but the ensembles I played in were at a higher level, but I did much less of it.

So, the teacher is very important, but you have to also consider the ensembles you will get to play with. I personally would lean toward chamber ensembles (quintet, brass choir, trombone choir, etc) lead by a good coach along with some large ensembles. Not everybody gets to play in the orchestra, but maybe you can choose a band or wind ensemble.

[bassbone721]

Thanks for all the responses! I'm going in for trombone performance and double majoring as well.
Regarding the teacher, what do you think would be more beneficial: a world class orchestral bass trombonist and soloist, or an equally good trombonist that doubles a lot and plays various styles?

[Burgerbob]

What do you want to do? Go for the teacher that does what you want to do.

[WilliamLang]

try to take a lesson with both and see both who inspires you to practice and make music, and who you communicate well with as well. either player should have the trombone skills you need to move forward in career, though their paths might be different and they might have different business advice or networking connections.

ask for a skype lesson or chat - now's the time to reach out and get to know your potential teachers a little better as people in addition to trombone players.

[GabrielRice]

Full disclosure: I am a college teacher at an expensive school (but you can see that from my signature below...).

Yes, teacher is important...but I have also taught at a school with a much smaller music department, and that was challenging because my students were not surrounded by other ambitious students the way they are at Boston University. I don't teach in a vacuum; I really believe my students learn as much from each other and the other young musicians around them as they do from me. And undergraduates especially learn tremendous amounts from the graduate students, who are just a few years ahead of them, modeling not just great playing but great practice habits.

If you are very serious about wanting to be a professional musician, look for a school with a vibrant music department that is full of other students as ambitious as you are. And a great teacher of course. There are many schools like that - some of them are major conservatories, others are private universities like BU with a conservatory-style music school inside them, still others are fantastic state schools. Pick the one that feels right to you, where you will be challenged both by the teacher and the other students.

[CalgaryTbone]

Full disclosure: I am a college teacher at an expensive school (but you can see that from my signature below...).

Yes, teacher is important...but I have also taught at a school with a much smaller music department, and that was challenging because my students were not surrounded by other ambitious students the way they are at Boston University. I don't teach in a vacuum; I really believe my students learn as much from each other and the other young musicians around them as they do from me. And undergraduates especially learn tremendous amounts from the graduate students, who are just a few years ahead of them, modeling not just great playing but great practice habits.

If you are very serious about wanting to be a professional musician, look for a school with a vibrant music department that is full of other students as ambitious as you are. And a great teacher of course. There are many schools like that - some of them are major conservatories, others are private universities like BU with a conservatory-style music school inside them, still others are fantastic state schools. Pick the one that feels right to you, where you will be challenged both by the teacher and the other students.

[LeTromboniste]

Yes, Gabe nailed it.

I'll add a few things.

1) definitely choose the best teacher but beware of choosing on only name recognition. I know so many people who studied with some of the top names, and very few of them were satisfied. A lot of very good teachers are fairly obscure players in terms of national or international fame. You need to have a lesson with your future teacher before you decide, otherwise it's a very risky decision. The teacher needs to be good but you also need to have a good chemistry with them. Not all teachers and students are a good fit.

2) a teacher that has an open mind and has a diversified career is a big plus in my opinion. The more they can teach you, and the more they can recognise what your potential can develop into, the better. I wouldn't necessarily want to study with someone who has been exclusively playing in a major symphony, as they can (not all of them but still, many) get tunnel vision and evaluate your potential/try to develop it only thinking about orchestral work and winning auditions. They can also lack an understanding of what it takes to succeed as a musician outside of that context, not having to go through that themselves.

3) speaking of that, you need to go into this with both eyes open, knowing that the chances of winning a major symphony audition are very small. That's the part that universities won't tell you. Tons of highly talented and qualified musicians never win an audition. Luckily, there are other paths to a successful career as a musician, but you need to be willing to explore them. If you're willing to see where things will bring you and think having a career as a freelancer doing more chamber music, or new music, or early music, or jazz, etc. or a mix of all of these, and probably doing other music related jobs as well as playing (e.g. teaching, arranging, transcribing, managing, etc) is something you'd want to do (knowing it doesn't pay great) then go for it. The thing is it's to early for you to have any notion of if youll even have what it takes (not in terms of talent or abilities but mostly in terms of personality and style of playing) to win a job. If winning a job and playing in a major symphony is your only definition of success and you wouldn't be willing to do anything else, then I would strongly advise against majoring in music, because we're talking a 3-5 years commitment just to find out if you have a shot at it (and if not, then what?).

4) don't underestimate the importance of the music program at large outside of just the trombone or brass studio. Although you will be practicing a lot and having lessons, what you can learn in your theory and ear training classes and the ensemble opportunities you'll have are almost as important as the main teacher. Best to go to a school that has a well rounded offer. Look into whether the schools have a good jazz program, a good early music program, a good orchestra, a good composition department, if they have opera productions, who is teaching the theory classes (do they have some reknowned scholars in faculty). Because winning a symphony job shouldn't be your only definition of a positive outcome, you'll need to avail yourself of all opportunities to hone your order skills and learn other stuff. Thats hard to do when there's not much going on at the school.

5) location is important. You can learn a lot from colleagues who study in other music schools and being part of student projects or youth/civic orchestras or having gig opportunities. All these are more likely to happen in a big city or at least one with a vibrant scene and several music schools than in an isolated town or a college town where your school is most of what there is.

[Gary]

I really believe my students learn as much from each other and the other young musicians around them as they do from me.

I went to UNT at a time (I suppose it's still the same) when the community was truly amazing. Guys like Lou Marini, Ed Soph, Dan Haerle you name it. In H.S., I was all-state, first, in everything. When I entered UNT, I found myself buried right in the middle. Everybody was all-state everything.

A faculty was important but your peer group truly has a lot of current, enthusiastic and exemplary things to share. You not only learn from a lot from them and feed off of them, but you make some contacts/networking for life.

[bigbandbone]

You do not have to go to a music school to take lessons from a teacher that you respect and want to emulate. Find that person and start taking lessons. Then enroll in a near by community college or 4 year college and get a degree in something that will pay the rent and put food on the table!
I wish someone would have given me this advice when I was your age.

[BGuttman]

You do not have to go to a music school to take lessons from a teacher that you respect and want to emulate. Find that person and start taking lessons. Then enroll in a near by community college or 4 year college and get a degree in something that will pay the rent and put food on the table!
I wish someone would have given me this advice when I was your age.

I say this all the time and usually get my head handed to me.

The fact remains, being a professional musician is a tough and not very remunerative path (with a very few exceptions). It's very competitive. I usually say if you would rather play than eat, maybe you could consider music. Otherwise, do something else and join a good amateur group and keep the music as fun.

[GabrielRice]

I MAKE A LIVING PLAYING AND TEACHING MUSIC.

Many people I know make livings playing and teaching music. Almost without exception they went to music school. Not a local community college while they took lessons with the best player nearby.

I don't understand that advice at all. If you want to be a professional musician you have to surround yourself with people who also want to be professional musicians. That's no guarantee you'll be able to, but studying something other than music, taking lessons, and playing as much as you have time for around your other studies pretty much guarantees you won't.

I don't want to insult anybody, but I also can't stand by while people tell you that you can't make any money as a musician. I make enough money to own a house in Boston, drive a pretty nice car, save for retirement, and enjoy some luxuries.

And guess what...I don't have a major symphony job! How is that possible?

[Burgerbob]

I MAKE A LIVING PLAYING AND TEACHING MUSIC.

[mbarbier]

What Gabe said. 100%.

The advice always given to me was to only go into music if it's not possible for you to do something else.

The fit with your teacher is essential but the studio is too.

I bore my students to death with this story, but when I was going to undergrad I had a choice between a school that was free with scholarship and a conservatory (CIM) that I'd have to take loans for (which obviously loans aren't ideal and one needs to be cautious). Both schools had really great teachers but the thing that decided it for me was sitting in with the university's band and realizing that while the older students were better than me there wasn't a huge gap. When I got to CIM my teacher had his studio, which was just 4 that year, be a trombone quartet. Everyone else was a masters or artist diploma student (two of which had left for orchestra jobs by year's end) and I was a total mess who was only allowed to play third trombone. Every single rehearsal was a complete ass kicking. It made me shed like crazy to just try to get to a level where it was mildly less embarrassing. Orchestra and brass ensemble felt the same way.

Two of the students were really nice and would pull me out of my practice room basically every day and make me practice with them. The other was angry about having to play with a freshman (instead of a MM student from the other trombone teacher's studio) and was VERY honest about it. All of this was a huge motivation and a massive help. The lesson I learned that semester is still one of my primary motivators 16 years later- always try to put yourself in a situation where you've got to out work everyone to just not be the worst person in the room.


You see your teacher one hour a week, 9 months a year. You see your classmates every day. They hold you accountable and they can also help you unpack and give differing perspectives on what your teacher tells you in lessons as they've heard it too. Community is so so so very important. Most people don't have the totally focused drive that a career in music needs and community can make a huge difference in that development.

I'm not making a pro-conservatory arguement, just a go to a place with a great teacher and studio. There are a ton of state schools and liberal arts universities that offer that as well.

On the community college side of things, it's a mixed bag, but one that does have a lot of potential to be a really helpful tool, especially if you're unsure. A lot have good teachers but very few have a real sense of community in their studios. Really do your research on them. LA City College, one of the schools I teach at, has a really good community college music program that is free for majors and has a great feeder system into CalArts, UCLA, and CSU North Ridge, so it's fairly well set up to help people really step into good schools when money is a difficult part of the equation. But a thing I notice basically every year is that there's a good brass studio every fall then we lose half of it to grades (the free part has strict requirements), or needing to work more for family reasons (which is obviously an extremely legitimate reason), or a whole host of other reasons. In the fall of this year we had 7 trombones and the spring we had 2. That kind of wild fluctuation doesn't seem to happen outside of CCs and can really throw off a student without a really strong sense of purpose.

TLDR community college can be good, but you've got to really do your research and always work to put yourself in a situation where you've got to out work everyone just to feel like you can hang.