Lawler 2 or 3?

[johntarr]

As I’ve posted earlier, I got a Lawler Model 4 Big Boy last year. I loved the sound and many things about the horn but struggled with the high range and the Bb in first was really hard to center. In third position the Bb was much easier but if I wasn’t set up just right, that Bb in first would sound like crap. To those who would say that it’s my embouchure, on all my other horns I can play that note well, even the bass trombone.

Anyway, I tried a #5 lead pipe, which was an improvement but still not right. Corresponding with Roy, he suggested trying a different slide. He said there is no real difference between the 4 (I ordered a set back bell) and the 2 so a smaller bore slide will work fine. I also could trade in the whole Model 4 and pay for a whole new horn. I decided to get a .508 bore slide.

But then I keep reading about the Model 3 and had almost ordered that back when I opted for the Model 4. So I’m wondering, from those who have played them, how a 2 or 1 compares to the 3. Maybe I should make the investment and go with a 3 or just stick with the 4 and a smaller slide.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks , John

[dembones]

I went all-in on Lawler horns, ending up with one of each of the models, 1, 2 and 3. I bought the model 1 when that was all he was offering, and loved it. I couldn't resist getting the 2 when he came out with it, and again with the 3.

Ultimately I decided to sell two of them, as once I settled on one it didn't make sense to have two of these beautiful horns just sitting in their cases. I kept the model 2. I prefer the set-back bell of the 2 over the bell-forward model 1, and also felt like I lock in on the horn better with the 2 over the 3. In terms of player feedback, and consistency of tone and responsiveness over the full range of the horn, I chose the 2. But the difference was subtle, they are all great horns.

I don't think you will regret the choice you make, whichever model you choose.

[thepianoman04]

I agree with dembones.

I also recently tried the models 1, 2 & 3 and really really wanted to love the 3 and had basically made up my mind before I got there but after playing it I noticed the slotting was a little trickier than on the model 2 with that additional brace gone on the model 3, I was slipping all around the notes and just never could get it to lock in.

Once I picked up the model 2R with that setback bell & could hear more of myself, it was hands down the best horn I’ve played to date and didn’t know I could find a horn that easy to play and you just know by playing it that it’s the real deal. I didn’t think I could make any horn sound like that without intentionally trying to change my tone if that makes any sense.

I legit wanted to love everything about the model 3 plus it had the bronze stem I wanted where as the model 2 he made was a red brass stem. Even still I do not regret my decision one bit on settling on the 2. The only thing I contemplate now is whether I should have gotten the 2 in a Bronze stem.

I’m actually thinking of doing the same thing as you and buying an additional .508 slide.

My current setup has the dual bore .500/.508 slide and I was already used to the .508 when I first bought my model 2 but think I might like having both slide options for different occasions.

Anyway, that’s my 2 cents and I think you’re making the right choice in getting the .508 slide.

Sounds like you’re just coming down a size from the big boy whereas I’m coming up a size from the dual bore slide so we’re both meeting in the middle of our comfort levels with the .508 slide.

[johntarr]

I went all-in on Lawler horns, ending up with one of each of the models, 1, 2 and 3. I bought the model 1 when that was all he was offering, and loved it. I couldn't resist getting the 2 when he came out with it, and again with the 3.

Ultimately I decided to sell two of them, as once I settled on one it didn't make sense to have two of these beautiful horns just sitting in their cases. I kept the model 2. I prefer the set-back bell of the 2 over the bell-forward model 1, and also felt like I lock in on the horn better with the 2 over the 3. In terms of player feedback, and consistency of tone and responsiveness over the full range of the horn, I chose the 2. But the difference was subtle, they are all great horns.

I don't think you will regret the choice you make, whichever model you choose.

Thanks for that response, it’s interesting to hear of your experience with all the three models!

[johntarr]

I agree with dembones.

I also recently tried the models 1, 2 & 3 and really really wanted to love the 3 and had basically made up my mind before I got there but after playing it I noticed the slotting was a little trickier than on the model 2 with that additional brace gone on the model 3, I was slipping all around the notes and just never could get it to lock in.

Once I picked up the model 2R with that setback bell & could hear more of myself, it was hands down the best horn I’ve played to date and didn’t know I could find a horn that easy to play and you just know by playing it that it’s the real deal. I didn’t think I could make any horn sound like that without intentionally trying to change my tone if that makes any sense.

I legit wanted to love everything about the model 3 plus it had the bronze stem I wanted where as the model 2 he made was a red brass stem. Even still I do not regret my decision one bit on settling on the 2. The only thing I contemplate now is whether I should have gotten the 2 in a Bronze stem.

I’m actually thinking of doing the same thing as you and buying an additional .508 slide.

My current setup has the dual bore .500/.508 slide and I was already used to the .508 when I first bought my model 2 but think I might like having both slide options for different occasions.

Anyway, that’s my 2 cents and I think you’re making the right choice in getting the .508 slide.

Sounds like you’re just coming down a size from the big boy whereas I’m coming up a size from the dual bore slide so we’re both meeting in the middle of our comfort levels with the .508 slide.

Yes, I hope the .508 will be the Goldilocks solution! I also thought that having a bronze 3 would be cool, just because I like the sound of the bronze flare, as well as the color. I’m not usually worried about the look but I like the bronze color.

Anyway, it sounds like my Model 4 to Model 2 conversion will be great. Now, just the wait...

[sacfxdx]

I only see model 1 on Roy’s site. Did he quit making the other models ?

[Nobbi]

I think he's just focused on manufacturing trombones.
One needs to set priorities.

[johntarr]

I only see model 1 on Roy’s site. Did he quit making the other models ?

In an email, he said that he was focusing on the 1 and 2 models because that’s what most people want. He hasn’t got the Model 2 up on his website and he will make the Model 3 as a special order.

[TheSheriff]

..
I never experienced slotting problems with my model 3, but it has a more veiled tone that might make one think it is a slotting issue. Dunno for sure. I do think a model 3 would be best with an all yellow bell section and a nickel slide, mine was not. That would go a long way in removing the veil yet keeping the beautiful open blow and buttery sound. I think. Ha! You know how this stuff is. Science, design, and black art all mixed together.

I sold my model 3 not because I did not like it, but because I retired from playing and do not play much anymore. The model 3 required me to be in top shape to keep it lit up. It was a 500/508 dual bore so that probably had something to do with the extra oomph required too. I still have my model 1, 500 bore and it is perfect for me.

I love Roy and his horns. The trombone community is fortunate to have him.
..

[JerryY]

I posted this over on the Lawler demo thread and pasted over here also:

I purchased my Lawler last November after my wife and I drove down from Buffalo, NY to try his trombones. I have always played and preferred a red brass bell, all nickel slide setup whether small or large bore. After consulting with Roy via email and on the phone, I made the trip there. He had made the first 3Z bell stem which he though I might like - he was spot on. I played the red and yellow stems in the model 1 and 2 with various flares and went right back to the all bronze stem in the model 3. I ended up with the model 3 bronze stem with a 7.5" and 8" bronze (.022 flare) flare with the .500 bore all nickel slide and #15 leadpipe. I use it with my Elliott MN104/C+/D2 and it is amazing! The 8" flare is broad and smooth but really projects when pushed. I sent back the original 8" red flare and got the 7.5" bronze flare which is immediate in articulations. It cuts well at any volume and the projection makes it play as if your mic'd when soloing. The band says the sound is great out front! Roy was a pleasure to work with and very accommodating. I have tried many instruments over the years and never played anything this fun.