Valve pistons

[rleegabe]

I just bought a Conn 5G Victor valve trombone, I would like to buy new valve pistons for it but I can't find any information as to which ones it takes. It was made in 1965 so it's pre King merger, would anyone have info on what valve pistons they used or what would be compatable. I was told after the King merger the 2166 trumpet valves were used but being as this is pre King I have nno idea what to look for. The reason for wanting new pistons is I took it apart and the valve in it have big nicks and some deep scratches.

[BGuttman]

What's wrong with the pistons?

[greenbean]

I just bought a Conn 5G Victor valve trombone, I would like to buy new valve pistons for it but I can't find any information as to which ones it takes. It was made in 1965 so it's pre King merger, would anyone have info on what valve pistons they used or what would be compatable. I was told after the King merger the 2166 trumpet valves were used but being as this is pre King I have nno idea what to look for. The reason for wanting new pistons is I took it apart and the valve in it have big nicks and some deep scratches.

Valve trombone valves are not "drag-and-drop." It doesn't work that way. In the trumpet world, maybe it does (I wouldn't know).

Your horn is not a Conn 5G Victor. The Conn you posted recently appears to be an older Conn bell section (1930's?) with a Getzen (I think) valve section.

You might consider returning the horn to the person you bought it from - if they represented it as a Conn 5G Victor.

If you keep the horn, you should work with a repair tech to determine how to proceed. If the valves are really fatally worn, it probably makes sense to acquire a different horn - rather than replace the valves.

[hornbuilder]

Dan Oberloh is the guy to speak to, to have the pistons plated and fit to their casings. You can't just buy replacement parts, especially for an older model that is not made anymore.

[rleegabe]

What's wrong with the pistons?

They work, they are just really beat up.

[rleegabe]

I just bought a Conn 5G Victor valve trombone, I would like to buy new valve pistons for it but I can't find any information as to which ones it takes. It was made in 1965 so it's pre King merger, would anyone have info on what valve pistons they used or what would be compatable. I was told after the King merger the 2166 trumpet valves were used but being as this is pre King I have nno idea what to look for. The reason for wanting new pistons is I took it apart and the valve in it have big nicks and some deep scratches.

Valve trombone valves are not "drag-and-drop." It doesn't work that way. In the trumpet world, maybe it does (I wouldn't know).

Your horn is not a Conn 5G Victor. The Conn you posted recently appears to be an older Conn bell section (1930's?) with a Getzen (I think) valve section.

You might consider returning the horn to the person you bought it from - if they represented it as a Conn 5G Victor.

If you keep the horn, you should work with a repair tech to determine how to proceed. If the valves are really fatally worn, it probably makes sense to acquire a different horn - rather than replace the valves.

I don't believe that is true, on the valve section are the serial numbers that match up to Conn, E3099 making the year 1965 so the technician at Music and Arts repair told me was in one of his order books. And he seems to think it is a 5g victor, why do think different? Not being a wise guy, but would appreciate you input.

[rleegabe]

I just bought a Conn 5G Victor valve trombone, I would like to buy new valve pistons for it but I can't find any information as to which ones it takes. It was made in 1965 so it's pre King merger, would anyone have info on what valve pistons they used or what would be compatable. I was told after the King merger the 2166 trumpet valves were used but being as this is pre King I have nno idea what to look for. The reason for wanting new pistons is I took it apart and the valve in it have big nicks and some deep scratches.

Valve trombone valves are not "drag-and-drop." It doesn't work that way. In the trumpet world, maybe it does (I wouldn't know).

Your horn is not a Conn 5G Victor. The Conn you posted recently appears to be an older Conn bell section (1930's?) with a Getzen (I think) valve section.

You might consider returning the horn to the person you bought it from - if they represented it as a Conn 5G Victor.

If you keep the horn, you should work with a repair tech to determine how to proceed. If the valves are really fatally worn, it probably makes sense to acquire a different horn - rather than replace the valves.

Here is a picture of a Conn 5g valve trombone, if there is a difference between this one and mine I can't find it. Other than the counter weight on mine they look the same. So how do you distinguish between the two?

[Doug Elliott]

In your other thread about this horn you posted a picture of it, and the second valve slide is sticking out at an angle. As far as I know, Conn didn't make them that way, they made them parallel.

These days a lot of people cobble horns together with various parts. That valve section could be anything but most likely not Conn.

And the serial number has the wrong number of digits to be the Conn you think it is.

[rleegabe]

I just bought a Conn 5G Victor valve trombone, I would like to buy new valve pistons for it but I can't find any information as to which ones it takes. It was made in 1965 so it's pre King merger, would anyone have info on what valve pistons they used or what would be compatable. I was told after the King merger the 2166 trumpet valves were used but being as this is pre King I have nno idea what to look for. The reason for wanting new pistons is I took it apart and the valve in it have big nicks and some deep scratches.

Valve trombone valves are not "drag-and-drop." It doesn't work that way. In the trumpet world, maybe it does (I wouldn't know).

Your horn is not a Conn 5G Victor. The Conn you posted recently appears to be an older Conn bell section (1930's?) with a Getzen (I think) valve section.

You might consider returning the horn to the person you bought it from - if they represented it as a Conn 5G Victor.

If you keep the horn, you should work with a repair tech to determine how to proceed. If the valves are really fatally worn, it probably makes sense to acquire a different horn - rather than replace the valves.

I have searched serial numbers all the major brands for instruments and Conn is the only one who uses an E to designate there serial numbers. I think your theory that my valve section is Getzen is false.

[Burgerbob]

I have searched serial numbers all the major brands for instruments and Conn is the only one who uses an E to designate there serial numbers. I think your theory that my valve section is Getzen is false.

Well, it's certainly not a Conn section. To the experienced eyes in the forum it looks like Getzen construction.

[elmsandr]

Valve trombone valves are not "drag-and-drop." It doesn't work that way. In the trumpet world, maybe it does (I wouldn't know).

Your horn is not a Conn 5G Victor. The Conn you posted recently appears to be an older Conn bell section (1930's?) with a Getzen (I think) valve section.

You might consider returning the horn to the person you bought it from - if they represented it as a Conn 5G Victor.

If you keep the horn, you should work with a repair tech to determine how to proceed. If the valves are really fatally worn, it probably makes sense to acquire a different horn - rather than replace the valves.

Here is a picture of a Conn 5g valve trombone, if there is a difference between this one and mine I can't find it. Other than the counter weight on mine they look the same. So how do you distinguish between the two?

So, here's the thing... What are you looking at to say "they are the same"? You have a lot of folks that look at details like the machining on the valve casings, the direction of the wrap on the 2nd valve slide, the style of the receiver, the look of the bumper on the end, the bracing locations, the spit valve orientation and lever shape... pretty much all the details. We get that you are new to this, but there was a lot of experience with horns and looking at the details that went in to the previous poster's comment that it looks "nothing like a Conn valve section." It just doesn't look like one of that vintage.

Look at all the details. Hard to tell from some pictures from different angles, but none of the details seem to align. Maybe it is a valve section that is original to the bell that has had a lot of repair and surgeries over the intervening decades. Just looks like somebody grafted another valve trombone section onto a 5G bell. And that bottom bow/Bumper looks VERY Getzen, as does the hex stock bracing to the valve block.

As for your search on serial numbers... beware that there are a LOT of lost and missing records for multiple manufacturers.

Cheers,
Andy

[rleegabe]

Here is a picture of a Conn 5g valve trombone, if there is a difference between this one and mine I can't find it. Other than the counter weight on mine they look the same. So how do you distinguish between the two?

So, here's the thing... What are you looking at to say "they are the same"? You have a lot of folks that look at details like the machining on the valve casings, the direction of the wrap on the 2nd valve slide, the style of the receiver, the look of the bumper on the end, the bracing locations, the spit valve orientation and lever shape... pretty much all the details. We get that you are new to this, but there was a lot of experience with horns and looking at the details that went in to the previous poster's comment that it looks "nothing like a Conn valve section." It just doesn't look like one of that vintage.

Look at all the details. Hard to tell from some pictures from different angles, but none of the details seem to align. Maybe it is a valve section that is original to the bell that has had a lot of repair and surgeries over the intervening decades. Just looks like somebody grafted another valve trombone section onto a 5G bell. And that bottom bow/Bumper looks VERY Getzen, as does the hex stock bracing to the valve block.

As for your search on serial numbers... beware that there are a LOT of lost and missing records for multiple manufacturers.

Cheers,
Andy

Then how do explain the serial numbers on the valve section? E3099 only come up under Conn, and as far as I can tell only Conn used the E in front of there serial numbers. I looked under the Getzen serial numbers, King, Jupiter, none of them are using the E, help me out guy's, you are saying it's not Conn then what the heck is it????????

[Doug Elliott]

Frankenhorn

[rleegabe]

Here is a picture of a Conn 5g valve trombone, if there is a difference between this one and mine I can't find it. Other than the counter weight on mine they look the same. So how do you distinguish between the two?

So, here's the thing... What are you looking at to say "they are the same"? You have a lot of folks that look at details like the machining on the valve casings, the direction of the wrap on the 2nd valve slide, the style of the receiver, the look of the bumper on the end, the bracing locations, the spit valve orientation and lever shape... pretty much all the details. We get that you are new to this, but there was a lot of experience with horns and looking at the details that went in to the previous poster's comment that it looks "nothing like a Conn valve section." It just doesn't look like one of that vintage.

Look at all the details. Hard to tell from some pictures from different angles, but none of the details seem to align. Maybe it is a valve section that is original to the bell that has had a lot of repair and surgeries over the intervening decades. Just looks like somebody grafted another valve trombone section onto a 5G bell. And that bottom bow/Bumper looks VERY Getzen, as does the hex stock bracing to the valve block.

As for your search on serial numbers... beware that there are a LOT of lost and missing records for multiple manufacturers.

Cheers,
Andy

Looked at many pictures, it is not a Conn but has a Conn bell section, Say's Conn right on the bell, valve section who knows. I will have to take it back and beat the crap out of the guy who sold it to me as a Conn!!!!!!!!

[ithinknot]

I will have to take it back and beat the crap out of the guy who sold it to me as a Conn!!!!!!!!

Depending on, err, the guy, he may not have known what it is or isn't any better than you did.

But if you can get your money back, no harm done.

[BGuttman]

E3099 is not a Conn Elkhart serial. If there was another digit to the serial, then it could be a Conn Elkhart serial.

If the valves are corrupted to the point of leaking, you don't just replace them. You have them replated and then adjusted to fit the cylinders. Not a job for the uninitiated. I think Osmun used to charge $100 per valve for this service. If you can't afford to have the repair done, you may get by with a heavier valve oil -- but at the cost of a more sluggish response.

[rleegabe]

I just bought a Conn 5G Victor valve trombone, I would like to buy new valve pistons for it but I can't find any information as to which ones it takes. It was made in 1965 so it's pre King merger, would anyone have info on what valve pistons they used or what would be compatable. I was told after the King merger the 2166 trumpet valves were used but being as this is pre King I have nno idea what to look for. The reason for wanting new pistons is I took it apart and the valve in it have big nicks and some deep scratches.

Valve trombone valves are not "drag-and-drop." It doesn't work that way. In the trumpet world, maybe it does (I wouldn't know).

Your horn is not a Conn 5G Victor. The Conn you posted recently appears to be an older Conn bell section (1930's?) with a Getzen (I think) valve section.

You might consider returning the horn to the person you bought it from - if they represented it as a Conn 5G Victor.

If you keep the horn, you should work with a repair tech to determine how to proceed. If the valves are really fatally worn, it probably makes sense to acquire a different horn - rather than replace the valves.

I would like to apologise for doubting you. You were right, it is a Conn bell sction but the valve section. I don't know who it is but it's not Getzen,King Conn or any of the big one's. In short I got screwed and the guy won't take it back. I'm on social security and I had to sell off the biggest part of my vintage watch collection to get the money to buy this. Any way, please accept my apology. I'm so disappointed I don't even want to pick the damn thing up.

[Matt K]

It might not be as bad as you think. I don’t know what it is, but someone might be able to tell visually. If it is an older us based valve section, it’s possible it is something like a Getzen. They had a fire in the mid 1900s and lost all their serial records or something like that. So perhaps it’s just that your slide doesn’t have a listed serial. That won’t help you get new valves for it since it would be long out of production but Getzen horns are definitely fine for your use case.

Similarly, it could be any number of vintage slides. I recently purchased a flugelhorn from the early 1900s that plays pretty well. Not as good as a new, quality flugel, but a good horn nonetheless. Especially for me who merely dabbles. There are a LOT of valves instruments floating around from this era that are in decent condition so perhaps they picked one up and Made a Frankenbone.

Another possibility is that it’s a more contemporary valve set from an imported horn. Some of these are not so good. Some of them are, however, not bad as well. JimBao is one of the larger manufacturers in China and has a ton of stencils under a variety of brands. I didn’t see your pictures nor do I really know what their valve trombone models look like. Good news is if it IS one of these, and you merely have damaged valves or really even possibly the casing, is that you may actually be able to get new parts for it since it may be current production.


If I were going to hazard a guess, and it’s totally a guess, I’d say it’s probably #2. It may just be old. A good tech will probably be quite informative in figuring out just what. If the casings are nickel plated it may just be old but not much worse than it was new. Skimming the thread it seems like the issue is the valves aren’t great but aren’t obviously damaged either?

Whatever it may be, while it might not be exactly what you though and is unfortunate that it’s non returnable, it may also not be as bad a situation as you think it is.