Yellow vs Rose vs Gold vs Red bells

[dorutzzu92]

Hy, what are your opinion in differences between yellow,rose, gold, red brass bells?

[hyperbolica]

The conventional wisdom of course is that yellow is on the bright end of the spectrum and the redder you get, the darker the sound. Sometimes very red bells can feel dead, especially soft ones. But that's maybe an oversimplification. I never pick horns based on the bell color, but I find that I tend to gravitate toward horns with yellow and rose or middle of the road kind of colors. 8/88h, 79h, Olds Recording and my Kanstul 1662i are all reddish bells. But some of my favorite horns have been all over the map: 48h is nickel plated yellow, Wessex Urbie (rose) Shires MD+ (yellow), Courtois 402 (rose) , Rath R3 NickelSilver...

I owned a 10h for a time (Coprion) and even that thing had it's purposes, but overall I didn't like it. And then there was the Kanstul 760 (yellow) which was so bright it was frightening. The extremes are certainly there.

I personally think the heat treat/work hardening has a bigger effect on the sound, but that's something you can't see, and you have to take someone's word for it or trust your ears. So again, it's not a simple this vs that sort of thing. Each assembled horn has its own characteristics. Some materials or components make it lean one way or another, but the overall balance is a composite. And very often horn designers will offset a red bell with nickel silver slide, or light bell with heavy side - there's a lot of balance compensating for extremes.

[dorutzzu92]

I'm asking because, in my country, i don't have dealers, to go play-test several instruments, i have to make online shopping , and i am making the maximum research i can, for the moment i saw a edwards t350, yellow bell , Single radius, axial, t'stdn slide, but i am affraid to, not be to bright sound overall...

[BGuttman]

To some extent you will adjust to get as close to your sound as possible out of whatever you play. I tend to have relatively bright playing character so I gravitate to rose, gold, or even red bells. But I tend to make them sound a bit on the bright side because that's my tendency. I have a couple of yellow bell horns that I tend to play a bit darker.

Please don't get too hung up on specs. Get a good horn and learn to make your sound on it.

[tbonesullivan]

This is another old discussion, and I don't think there will ever be a clear answer, just trends on which is most popular for a certain horn.

What I remember being said is that Yellow brass (70/30) is more consistent throughout the dynamic range. Gold/Rose brass (85/15) is darker when played softer, but gets more brilliant when pushed. Red brass (90/10) is a bit more.

However you've also got all the other parts of the horn working with it. to control how the response is.

[baileyman]

I don't think it makes any difference.

However, if a red bell shows up, I often lose my self control...

[harrisonreed]

I'm asking because, in my country, i don't have dealers, to go play-test several instruments, i have to make online shopping , and i am making the maximum research i can, for the moment i saw a edwards t350, yellow bell , Single radius, axial, t'stdn slide, but i am affraid to, not be to bright sound overall...

Get an Edwards T-350HB with a standard, light gauge rose bell, and ask them what the most popular configuration is with that bell. You can get almost any sound you're after on such a setup.

[CalgaryTbone]

First of all, depending on the manufacturer, Rose brass can be another name for Gold brass, or for Red brass, or can be a copper percentage between the other two.

Yellow tends to be the most stable, with a slightly brighter sound at soft dynamics and with little change as you get louder. Red has the darkest sound at soft, but tends to get to the brightest sound at loud volumes. Gold splits the difference. To figure out where Rose fits in this, you need to figure out how the manufacturer uses that term. Using a contrasting metal on a tuning slide or hand slide adds a smaller amount of the differences that I just listed.

When I bought my first Edwards, I also didn't have a dealer nearby, and the ITA Festivals, etc. tended to coincide with the symphony season or other work here. I bought the same set-up that was being used by Alessi, Haroz, Markey (tenor), etc. Over the years, I've bought some other parts, some of which were swapped in as my regular gear, and others that ended up as a back-up or were sold online. If the OP can't get to a place where they can try some horns, this can be an effective way to find a modular horn that works for them. I would still suggest that finding a way to try a few can get you closer to the best choice for you, but that's not always so easy to do in every case.

Modular instruments and online sales of lightly used instruments and parts can make it fairly economical to experiment with equipment to figure out what works for you.

Jim Scott

[Kevbach33]

I don't think it makes any difference.

However, if a red bell shows up, I often lose my self control...

This was me when I bought my Holton 168. Red bells are just so pretty...

"Must... Resist... Temptation... Problems lie underneath..."

*Has Conn 3B mouthpiece in case



"Ah, to heck with it! There may be a concert band gig in my future... And I have a great plan for this mouthpiece so it all checks out!"

*Gifts Conn 3B mouthpiece to alma mater, no hard feelings

*Splits time between Conn and Holton about 60/40 in jazz band

*No concert band gigs to be heard of



In all seriousness, any horn—good, bad or meh—is the sum of its parts—materials and how they're worked—and how well built it is. For some, a mix of materials (e.g. yellow tuning slide with high copper bell) works wonders; for others, simple (e.g. all yellow brass, like most Bach's) is best.

The only true commonality amongst my bones is a yellow brass neck pipe and tuning slide, since that's how they were built. The Holton and Besson have standard rotors. The Conn and Holton have sleeves and unsoldered bell rims. Otherwise...

Conn (small tenor): yellow brass bell, gold brass (bronze?) slide with nickel sleeves and crook; most stable sound spectrum between dynamics
Holton (large tenor with F): red brass (90/10) bell, nickel slide and sleeves with yellow brass crook; most varied spectrum
Besson (Indy bass): rose brass (85/15) bell, lightweight nickel slide and crook; quite varied spectrum, closer to the Holton

I'm also a tuba player, so I tend toward a naturally warm sound. But the Holton or Besson can let it rip as necessary.

And the Conn takes all I can give it, with little relative change in timbre.

[harrisonreed]

I guess I never actually answered the original post. Thin red brass gets bright at higher volumes and higher tessitura, and is more mellow at lower dynamics. I love how red brass articulates. Forget about thick red brass.

Gold brass is boring. ∆

Yellow brass is more even no matter what dynamic or range you are in. I like how thin yellow brass articulates. Unsoldered bells articulate and feel best.

But here is the catch -- almost any manufacturer with their salt will offset whatever the bell does best through a particular combination of the other parts, and that is for the best. Go with what they suggest. The bell is sort of the icing on the cake, not the point where you start at. Or you start there (like I would do with unsoldered bells) and then build the rest of the horn to reign it in.

It's a sum of all the parts, but for many (like me!) The are some things you don't or won't compromise on.

∆ (just how I see it)