1954 3B vs 1963 3B

[saladedefruits]

Hi! This is an extremely trivial question but I need. To. Know. I created an account just for this. What is the difference between the King 3B from the early-mid 50s and the King 3B from the early 60s? Is there any difference at all? I am a college student planning on buying a 3B. I have two options and each are in the same condition and around the same price... but just from different make years.

The only way I even know there is a difference is by looking at the HN White website.

Google has not been helpful in my search for answers, so I come here. Thank you in advance for any help.

[rmb796]

I have a 55 3b and a 64 3b and I like the 64 model better. The 64 seems just a hair brighter and sounds "cleaner".
This is just my subjective opinion though. It would be best if you could play both horns.
Good luck
Randy

[Vegasbound]

Play both, buy the one you prefer

[Bach5G]

Buy both, resell the one you don’t care for as much.

[DaveAshley]

Actually, the proportions are slightly different. The earliest 3B's (maybe 1954-57? Something like that...) had a longer tuning slide crook. King shortened them after that. They did the same thing with the 2B at some point in the 50's. My favorite 3B's are from the early to mid 60's, but frankly, there's no honest way to answer which you'll prefer. I know a few players who swear by the early ones.

Where are you located? Did you find the horns locally or online?

[saladedefruits]

Buy both, resell the one you don’t care for as much.

Play both, buy the one you prefer

Unfortunately, I can not play both of them as both 1000+ miles away from me. My jazz professor let me try one the 3Bs he has collected for a day in class, so I’ll ask him what year that one was from. I also can not buy both because (insert several long winded explanations of why I can’t)

I have a 55 3b and a 64 3b and I like the 64 model better. The 64 seems just a hair brighter and sounds "cleaner".
This is just my subjective opinion though. It would be best if you could play both horns.
Good luck
Randy

Thanks for the luck! I wish I could play both. I kinda got the impression that the ‘63 model was just an improvement on any technical bumps found later on in the ‘54 model but I didn’t want to assume the thought process going into the design of those horns.

Actually, the proportions are slightly different. The earliest 3B's (maybe 1954-57? Something like that...) had a longer tuning slide crook. King shortened them after that. They did the same thing with the 2B at some point in the 50's. My favorite 3B's are from the early to mid 60's, but frankly, there's no honest way to answer which you'll prefer. I know a few players who swear by the early ones.

Where are you located? Did you find the horns locally or online?

This is what I’ve been hearing! I also considering buying a different trombone earlier (before someone else bought it) that was a 2B from sometime in the ‘40s, and the longer tuning slide crook was mentioned.

I also really searched for a while for an answer on the differences between the ‘38 2B, ‘46 2B, ‘54 2B and the ‘63 2B and exactly when that longer crook was removed. I’m just rambling though, I’ll save that question for the history part of this forum. Unless if you know. But if you don’t that’s fine cause simple Google searches can’t find it either.

So, some people prefer the longer tuning slide crook while some don’t?

Maybe that should’ve been my question. What’re the pros and cons of that fabled longer tuning crook?

I’ve read online that to some it gives like a richer or darker or smoother or whatever tone, but then I guess more modern trombones also don’t have that longer crook so they prefer something more familiar to them? Unsure.


Thank you all for the answers, I really appreciate it.

[Burgerbob]

Long tuning slide can make the horn too long- I had a friend here with one that had to sell it and move on because he couldn't get it up to pitch.

[harrisonreed]

The 3B is basically almost too long. If the older version is longer, it's definitely too long.

Don't confuse the design putting Bb out away from first as something requiring the tuning slide to be pulled out. Unless if you like playing Ab in 2nd+ position. I see people with the tuning side pulled out like 3 inches on a 3b and they sound out of tune and complain about their C's and Ab's.

The 3B is just good, period. Get the one from the 60's. Maybe you'll get 10 extra years out of it.

[saladedefruits]

The 3B is basically almost too long. If the older version is longer, it's definitely too long.

Don't confuse the design putting Bb out away from first as something requiring the tuning slide to be pulled out. Unless if you like playing Ab in 2nd+ position. I see people with the tuning side pulled out like 3 inches on a 3b and they sound out of tune and complain about their C's and Ab's.

The 3B is just good, period. Get the one from the 60's. Maybe you'll get 10 extra years out of it.

Ok. Thank you for the advice on buying the 60s one. I'm just trying to still understand this overtone thingy.

From what I know, if you have your tuning slide in a certain position and then just use your hand(?) slide for the rest of the tuning, theoretically you'll play so in tune that there'll be overtones. So if the tuning slide is too long, why don't the overtones work?

[harrisonreed]

The 3B is basically almost too long. If the older version is longer, it's definitely too long.

Don't confuse the design putting Bb out away from first as something requiring the tuning slide to be pulled out. Unless if you like playing Ab in 2nd+ position. I see people with the tuning side pulled out like 3 inches on a 3b and they sound out of tune and complain about their C's and Ab's.

The 3B is just good, period. Get the one from the 60's. Maybe you'll get 10 extra years out of it.

Ok. Thank you for the advice on buying the 60s one. I'm just trying to still understand this overtone thingy.

From what I know, if you have your tuning slide in a certain position and then just use your hand(?) slide for the rest of the tuning, theoretically you'll play so in tune that there'll be overtones. So if the tuning slide is too long, why don't the overtones work?

This isn't quite right. You might be confusing overtones with the harmonic series/partials. I have found that the farther out you pull a tuning slide, especially on, say, alto, the more out of line the partials will become. In other words, you'll need to adjust the handslide more between a lower note and the next note above it in a given single position, or possibly in a way that you normally wouldn't have to otherwise.

I'm talking about something different. The 3B is designed to have Ab at the bell, and Bb pretty far away (2.5" or so) from all-the-way-closed on the the slide. If you tune your Bb to closed position, the tuning slide will be pulled at least 2.5", Ab will be in a flat 2nd position, and the partials might get messed up, as described above.

[saladedefruits]

Ok. Thank you for the advice on buying the 60s one. I'm just trying to still understand this overtone thingy.

From what I know, if you have your tuning slide in a certain position and then just use your hand(?) slide for the rest of the tuning, theoretically you'll play so in tune that there'll be overtones. So if the tuning slide is too long, why don't the overtones work?

This isn't quite right. You might be confusing overtones with the harmonic series/partials. I have found that the farther out you pull a tuning slide, especially on, say, alto, the more out of line the partials will become. In other words, you'll need to adjust the handslide more between a lower note and the next note above it in a given single position, or possibly in a way that you normally wouldn't have to otherwise.

I'm talking about something different. The 3B is designed to have Ab at the bell, and Bb pretty far away (2.5" or so) from all-the-way-closed on the the slide. If you tune your Bb to closed position, the tuning slide will be pulled at least 2.5", Ab will be in a flat 2nd position, and the partials might get messed up, as described above.

Ok, I understand now! lol I always get the word for partials mixed up. I used to just call them layers.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Guess I'll start gathering up the money for that 3B now!

[Vegasbound]

If you really want a great 3b buying experience go and visit DJ aka the trombone whisperer he will have the perfect 3b for you!