Yamaha YBL-421G or Wessex PBF562

[atopper333]

Hello All,

This is my first post on the forum. I’ve used it for some time for various searches in the past, but I’m becoming more active and have some specific questions… the first is this:

I am unfamiliar with the quality of many modern instruments and usually stick with Bach, Conn, Olds, or Holton. I have never owned a bass trombone and am looking for something rather economical. My question is for most doubling parts in a small jazz band/community band setting, would purchasing a single valve bass like the Yamaha YBL-421 cover this, or would purchasing something like a Wessex double independent create more room for growth while learning the bass trombone. I’ve done some research on the Wessex, I guess I’m just looking for someone with direct experience with the trombone instead of someone trying to say what needs to be said to make a sale.

My major concern would be intonation on the Wessex. I had a Jupiter XO 1032 for a short period, and it seemed the slide positions were all over the place and the horn was sharp with the tuning slide pulled out all of the way. While I do believe this could be overcome with more practice and exercise, I did not have this issue on my Bach 36 or my Olds Super. I am concerned that the Wessex could have a similar issue, and from what I’ve read it seems Yamaha trombones are consistent in this area…Thanks in advance for any input on this subject!

[Posaunus]

The Yamaha YBL-421G is a perfectly good (or better) single-valve bass trombone. Excellent slide, valve, and overall quality; robust and durable. Nice sound with the right mouthpiece. And affordable. Probably measurably better than the Wessex. I doubt that you will need a double-valve bass for "a small jazz band/community band setting."

[Vegasbound]

If your going to double bass/tenor then you need to learn to play bass and arrange your practice time accordingly because your playing two instruments

[Pezza]

There is nothing wrong with single trigger baas bones.
I've tried a wessex, it played well but I found it hard to hold!

[DougHulme]

I agree with the previous posts. I spend more time playing a single trigger bass than I do a double anyway. There is a slightly cheaper alternative to the Yamaha YBL 421 that you should consider. It is, in my humble opinion a better instrument and that is the Yamaha YBL 321, honestly I am convinced its a better horn and I have had a couple of each... Doug

[atopper333]

Okay, there seems to be a pretty large consensus on this one! I appreciate all the helpful responses.

I do have hands a little on the smaller side, so I definitely will take your experience with it into account as well. It seems that if it hurts to hold and play, one will tend to avoid doing so and leave it in the case…

I would have a follow up question regarding the ybl-321 or 421. I usually play a Bach 6 1/2 or 5g. Would a 1 1/2g be a good mouthpiece to start on? And I’ll definitely have to look at splitting that practice time up…

[BGuttman]

For a first Bass mouthpiece a 2G or 1 1/2 G is a good choice. Sometimes you can find them here in the Classifieds. Alternates are the Yamaha/Schilke 58, Wick 2NAL, Faxx 1 1/2 G, Kelly 1 1/2 G (it's in colorful plastic), and probably some others.

Sometimes you can find one in the Classifieds for a good price.

[walldaja]

I have a Yamaha 421G. It's a fantastic horn, great tone and response. I love it for solo work because the sound fills the room and is even through the full range. Can't say enough about them. Much better quality than the Wessex.

[MrHCinDE]

I‘ve had a couple of Yamaha 321 and a Wessex bass, though not exactly the model you mention, as well as another relatively budget option for double valved bass, a Reynolds Contempora Stereophonic.

The Yamaha was my first own bass and it was a great option as a doubler, it served me well for several years and a lot of the time one valve is sufficient. With hindsight, I played a lot of really enjoyable gigs with it which for me is the acid test. You might find that a Yamaha 321 has better access to a low C, and at a real stretch with the F-attachment pulled out a usable B natural, than the 421. I never tested side-by-side but based on playing separately that was my impression.

At some point, I was playing literature with a lot of low C and B natural so decided a 2nd valve would be useful. I was on a budget and went through the two horns I mentioned above, both of which were more difficult to play than the Yamaha 321 and didn’t sound as good. Now I‘ve got a Yamaha 612Rii which I like every bit as much as the 321 and it has two valves. I kept a 321 also though and still use it occasionally.

On reflection, I think starting with the Yamaha 321 worked well for me. I could have sensibly skipped the Reynolds/Wessex step and saved up a bit longer to get a used Yamaha 612/613 or Benge 290, maybe a King Duo Gravis.

[ArbanRubank]

It depends on how you intend to use a 421G. I personally find the low trigger notes stuffy, especially with a "smaller" mpc - like a 2G or so. I have used as small as a 5G on mine, but when I do - I don't expect to be playing down in the low trigger notes. To mitigate the stuffiness down there, I am currently using a Doug Yeo mpc. But then I don't expect to be playing too high above the staff for long periods. For me, a 1.5G seems like a good compromise. However, this thread isn't about what mpc to use. I only make my points to illustrate how stuffy I find the 421G in the lower trigger notes and what I do to mitigate it. Otherwise, I love the sound on it.

Check out the 421G demo at Schmidt Music. I think he's using a 2G mpc. It's been a while since I viewed that demo on the 421G. I think he uses the term "resistance". Resistance. Stuffiness. The same result for me.

[hyperbolica]

I own a Wessex Super Tenor (half way between bass and tenor) and a Wessex double valve tenor. Both are good horns. The valves are nice. The Yamaha will probably hold up to use better, but in some situations you need two triggers.

I double tenor/bass and could not manage about 20% of what I play on a single valve. I play quartet and orchestra. We're really just talking C and B. What do you do for that 20%? Leave it out? Play it up an octave? Fake it?

If you can only get one horn, the safe bet is 2 valves. If you get one valve, you have to have a plan for how to deal with C and B.

[BGuttman]

I usually suggest a single bass for somebody moving from a straight horn so you only need to learn one valve. I like one where the F tuning slide can pull to flat E like a Conn or Holton. Once you get comfortable on a single bass you can branch off to a double if you want.

Note that low C and low B natural can be played as falset tones on the trigger in a flat 2nd and flat 3rd (flat trigger 2nd and flat trigger 3rd, that is).

[Burgerbob]

If you can only get one horn, the safe bet is 2 valves.

[atopper333]

Well, this has definitely got me thinking a bit! There are a lot of good points here that I’ll have to consider. Think it’s time to spend some time in the classifieds/brass exchange/reverb to see what comes up.

It looks like a single with the ability to pull to e flat is preferable..so I’m thinking ybl-321…and after a lot of reading through previous topics, I have quite an interest in the Yamaha 6xx series basses. Time to see what’s out there and take a plunge. Thanks again for all the input, it is much appreciated.

[Mamaposaune]

I have played both the Yamaha 321 and 421, and agree that they are both fine playing bass trombones. Someone here mentioned that they prefered the 321; I have not played them back-to-back but my impression after playing the 421 was that it was overall a bit heavier and nose-heavy than the 321.
Another single bass that you should consider is the Conn 72H. Not too hard to find and they're reasonably priced, similar to the Yamahas.

[Pezza]

The king 5B is a good small bass. 1 trigger, likes (for me) a 2Gish mouthpiece. Trigger slide pulls to E.
I've had to downgrade from my double trigger Bach 50, and have found the King 5B does everything I ask of it. But as a youth I had a teacher who disconnected my triggers & still had me playing bass, so I can really fake it!

[YooperHorn]

I just bought a Yamaha YBL-421G. The single trigger is a non issue to me. I had a double trigger throughout high school and college and I rarely used the second trigger. If you haven't bought a bass trombone in a while prepare yourself...the days of Bach,Conn and Holton being your only choices are gone. There's alot out there now...not sure if that's a good thing or not.

[atopper333]

Just got a great deal on a Ybl-322 which should come in a few weeks. Again, thanks all for the input and I look forward to diving in!

[Posaunus]

Just got a great deal on a Ybl-322 which should come in a few weeks. Again, thanks all for the input and I look forward to diving in!

Good luck. Enjoy!