Help identifying an old King/H.N White horn

[kch11743]

Hi all—first post!

I just picked up an old H.N. White straight tenor on eBay, and I’m trying to figure out what model it is and when it was made. Some specs and impressions:

My 12C small shank mouthpiece works but sits high in the receiver.

I can tune to concert Bb with the 12C in and the tuning slide pulled about half an inch.

The slide seems a bit longer than usual—about 7.5 positions.

Tuning is in the bell section, not slide. Friction fit, no slide lock.

The logo is “King made by the H.N. White & Co. Cleveland”, but no item number or model identifier that I can see. Serial numbers are 051240 and 051238 on the bell and outer slide, respectively.

Whole horn seems to be silver plated except for what might be a gold wash inside the bell.

The slide is playable, but not great. Somebody had greased it with something odd, but after a good cleaning it plays almost as easily as my daughter’s Pbone mini. There are several dings in the inners and outers that I’ll bring to the tech, and quite a bit of wear on the inners. The stockings are pretty abrupt. I don’t have my hopes up that the slide will ever play perfectly, but I was surprised at how playable it was after a good degreasing. It won’t ever win any awards for easy slide vibrato, but it’s playable enough to bring to a community band rehearsal.

The tone is surprisingly good, especially above the third partial. Really easy to slur between the upper partials. No problem playing up to a high F, although oddly I have a hard time centering a high Bb in the eighth partial—it’s easier to play that note in 3rd. (Probably the problem is me—I play mostly bass and large bore tenor, so my peashooter embouchure is a work in progress.) Really a pleasure to play in the fourth to seventh partials.

Anyone know what model this is and when it was made? Going from hnwhite.com, it looks like the horns from 1935 or so, like the Artists Solo model—no counterweight, tuning in bell, no extra curved brace on the slide. The serial numbers would put it a little earlier, before 1925 or so.

[BGuttman]

Look on www.hnwhite.com. It's a Web Site created by the family of King founder Henderson White. It covers King models up to the sale of the company to Seeburg in the mid 1960s.

Your horn looks like the Improved Proportion model from what I can make out of your pictures.

[kch11743]

Interesting. Do you know when (if ever) they started making Improved Proportions without the extra curved brace and n the slide section? I had ruled that one out because the IP catalog page on hnwhite.com shows all the IP models with that half-moon brace.

The earliest catalog pictures without that half-moon brace but with the curved bell brace seemed to be the Artists models from the late 30s, but those don’t line up well with the serial numbers (unless they were in production in the early 1920s).

Any advice for lubricants on slides of this vintage? Clearance seems to be fairly tight and scratchy at the stocking.

[BGuttman]

I can't help you any more. Hope somebody else can chime in.

What are the measurements of the thing (bell diameter, bore, etc.)?

[Posaunus]

Any advice for lubricants on slides of this vintage? Clearance seems to be fairly tight and scratchy at the stocking.

On a clearly damaged (and probably misaligned) slide like this, any lubricant can only help so much. The slide needs attention from a good tech, who will charge a fair amount to restore it as much as possible. (It's not just the "dings!) But it still won't act like a new slide!

[kch11743]

Got it back from my local tech, who ultimately wasn’t comfortable working on the slide because he didn’t have the right size mandrel. I don’t have high quality calipers to measure the bore, but the bell is exactly 7 inches and my guess is the slide is a .461/481, which could make it an Artist Solo model 1501, going from the old catalogs on hnwhite.com.

Anyone have experience repairing slides this old? The slide moves, but right now I’d call it a 2/10, and I’d love to get it more playable. Would this be a good fit for the Slide Doctor, or would it cost more than the horn is worth? (I bought it for $150, and I’d be willing to sink a little money into getting it playable.)

[BGuttman]

Old brass tends to get brittle and getting dents out or unbending bows can be difficult.

First thing I'd do is to make sure to polish the inners as much as possible without making the clearance too big. See what you can do to minimize the apparent wear grooves on the slide.

Then put an underlayer of Pledge spray furniture wax. Buff well. Then top off with your usual lube.

That is what Steve Shires did with my 1925 Olds slide (of course he also aligned it as well as he could first). It made a major difference.