Shires medium bore

[Chatname]

I hear very positive things about Rath and MW medium sized trombones. Not so much about Shires, I think. They have large and small bore artist models; no medium trombone is promoted on their website I believe. Why? Didn’t Steve Shires like them, or did he actually have a favorite medium set up? Are there any recommended set ups from Shires? Do people here have experiences/favorites?

[Bach5G]

I like my .525 Shires. If you buy into .547 for legit, .508 or smaller for non-legit, then you might be left wondering what the point of a .525 is. There’s currently a thread on that topic. A .525 can be the most useful-do-anything horn or it can be the most doesn’t-do-anything-well horn. It mostly depends on you.

I spent the better part of a day at Shires’ shop, which was then in Hopedale, sorting out my horn. It plays great.

[Chatname]

Thank you, what are the specifics if I may ask?

[Bach5G]

8” 1G bell. Light weight brass slide. I initially had a Tru-Bore valve. I’ve using a different Shires rotary valve now. I don’t know which one.

[sstelmack]

I am using the Ralph Sauer model with a TW25 slide. I went to Shires for a fitting and when I tried that combo it just really worked for me. So far I love it. The nice thing about Shires horns is you can just mix and match what you want. Bad thing is, if you aren't close to a place that has lots of their parts, then you just have to guess. I flew out there for a short trip and I really suggest doing that if you can.

[TheBoneRanger]

I have access to a bunch of Shires gear in my workplace. I spent a few years playing a .525 Shires in many different ensembles. 8.5 inch Elkhart bell, .525 yellow brass slide (no sleeves) and no valve. An incredibly interesting sounding horn that was a lot of fun to play. I must revisit it.

Andrew

[Matt K]

The medium bores share the same bell sections as the large bore. AFAIK, Ralph Sauers horn, as noted above, defaults to a medium bore but everyone else’s artist horn is a large bore. But I know quite a few shires artists that have a medium bore slide for their bell section. Or a slightly smaller bell section. I really like my shires medium bore setup personally.

[Bach5G]

I think Shire’s basic Sauer horn is .525/.547”, 8 and 1/2” bell.

One nice thing about my horn is you can play it as a straight horn (I have a straight neck pipe). I’m playing Merry Widow and Brahms 3 this weekend and I probably won’t bother switching my F att over.

[sstelmack]

You are correct. The Sauer horn comes standard with a 525/547 dual bore and 8.5 inch bell.

I will be getting a straight neck pipe for mine too. I'm glad to hear they are working for people.

[Mv2541]

The .525 slide is perfect (imho) for people who normally play .547 horns to scale down slightly while keeping the feel of their normal setup. Definitely a scaled down big horn kinda sound as opposed to a scaled up small horn like a 3B+. I’m someone who wants a more traditional (I feel weird saying this haha) medium bore feel, and didn’t like how much work it required or how wide the sound was. The Rath R3 I had felt similar to the shires when I used a large shank mouthpiece, but a fair bit less so with a small shank piece.

[Rusty]

I had a lesson with Jim Pugh about 15 years ago and we were talking about medium bore horns, and I recall him mentioning that he actually played a Shires medium bore (even though he was an Edwards artist), as the Edwards medium bore horn felt like a small ‘large horn’, where the Shires felt like a large ‘small horn’ which is what he was after. This was obviously earlier Shires days so I’m not sure how the two compare now. I had an Edwards .525 with a Thayer and straight neckpipe. It never quite felt right with the Thayer, but played great with as a straight horn. Probably would’ve been better with a standard rotor.

[hyperbolica]

I hear very positive things about Rath and MW medium sized trombones. Not so much about Shires, I think. They have large and small bore artist models; no medium trombone is promoted on their website I believe. Why? Didn’t Steve Shires like them, or did he actually have a favorite medium set up? Are there any recommended set ups from Shires? Do people here have experiences/favorites?

At one point I bought a new Shires 525 horn. A number of things went wrong including what seemed to me an obvious manufacturing defect in the bell flare. I returned the horn (and took the refund) because of that issue plus there just wasn't enough of a difference between the 525 and 547. (Plus, the salesman ridiculed my 79h, which was the wrong thing to do). They play really big, and all of the 525/547 Shires horns seem a bit sterile to me. It's hard to break the old Conn habits. Some people might love that the Shires large and medium bores play larger than you might expect, but I wanted something that was differentiated from the 547. I love the MD+ 508, but couldn't get used to their 525. M&W and Rath both put out fantastic 525 instruments that are improvements on the Bach 36 and Conn 79h.

The Ralph Sauer model I think uses a dual bore slide. I think Shires thinks of 525 as just an option rather than as a different instrument.

[Bach5G]

Why should there be a price difference between the .525 and .547 horns?

I played my .525 as a straight horn in last night’s rehearsal of Brahms 3. So much more responsive, easier to hear, lighter, brighter sound - pretty much what one might expect.

[BGuttman]

I don't remember there being a price differential for similarly equipped 0.525" horns and 0.547" horns.

[Chatname]

Thoughts on T25 vs TW25 when combined with an 8.5” bell? I’m assuming the narrow slide feels more compact and the wide slide has a broader sound/feel like T47 vs Tw47. Where I live I cannot test play these slides; I have to take a chance when ordering. That’s why I’m interested in other peoples experiences.

[sstelmack]

I honestly can't remember testing the T25. When I was in the shop I tested a bunch of slides. I do remember finding a couple of them pretty close to what I was looking for, but when I was handed the TW25 everything fell into place for me. I was looking for a large bore setup because I have a 3bf for smaller stuff. I feel like I get the large bore sound with more efficiency. So for my goal, this was the best fit. I think the narrow slide probably would have been to close to what I had already.