Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post Reply
cb56
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:58 pm
Location: Missouri Ozarks

Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by cb56 »

After about 10 year layoff I bought a 1929 Conn 78h. Do I need a special shank small bore mouthpiece for it or is my yamaha 48 ok?
Tried to tune to tuner and it was flat with tuning slide most of the way in.
Of course it could my lack of chops and wind.
User avatar
JohnL
Posts: 1839
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:01 am
Contact:

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by JohnL »

How far into the receiver does the mouthpiece go? Insertion depth should be about one inch.
cb56
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:58 pm
Location: Missouri Ozarks

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by cb56 »

Yep. Measures right at 1 inch.
Thanks.
btone
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:14 am
Location: MS
Contact:

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by btone »

Your pitch should rise as you get back into better shape.
hyperbolica
Posts: 3135
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 am

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by hyperbolica »

That's a decent mouthpiece with that horn. If you pull the slide all the way in, does it come into tune?
.
Last edited by hyperbolica on Wed Oct 04, 2023 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
cb56
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:58 pm
Location: Missouri Ozarks

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by cb56 »

No, even with the slide locked in first position it's still a couple cents flat. Close but not perfect. I have a 7c coming but I really like the way the yamaha 48 sounds with that horn. Oh well practice. Practice practice will most likely be the cure.
User avatar
Doug Elliott
Posts: 3343
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:12 pm
Location: Maryand

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by Doug Elliott »

Being a 1929 it could be strange tuning.
"I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two."
hyperbolica
Posts: 3135
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 am

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by hyperbolica »

Did you check for leaks or bad fit or something lodged in the instrument? If it came from Doug Bert, he would have mentioned if there were something weird about it.
User avatar
BGuttman
Posts: 6259
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:19 am
Location: Cow Hampshire

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by BGuttman »

Low Pitch around the turn of the 20th Century was a bit under A=440 (more like A=435). A Low Pitch instrument should be tunable to A=440, but some are not. I have an old G-bass with this problem.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
cb56
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:58 pm
Location: Missouri Ozarks

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by cb56 »

hyperbolica wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:25 pm Did you check for leaks or bad fit or something lodged in the instrument? If it came from Doug Bert, he would have mentioned if there were something weird about it.
Yeah, I trust him 100%
Nothing in there. No leaks.
CalgaryTbone
Posts: 1157
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 1:39 pm

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by CalgaryTbone »

Many horns from that era are pitched lower than A=440. That pitch didn't become standard until mid-century, or thereabouts. That's probably the issue.

Jim Scott
cb56
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:58 pm
Location: Missouri Ozarks

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by cb56 »

Well shoot. Guess I'll just push the tuning slide all the way in and deal with it.
User avatar
Doug Elliott
Posts: 3343
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:12 pm
Location: Maryand

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by Doug Elliott »

It might have "LP" stamped somewhere, for Low Pitch.
"I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two."
cb56
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:58 pm
Location: Missouri Ozarks

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by cb56 »

I've searched and don't see that.
On the bell where it joins the slide is the model# 78H with the number 5 above it.
The slide has the serial number on both parts.
Under the serial number on the outer slide is P 27. Over the serial number is the model 78H.
cb56
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:58 pm
Location: Missouri Ozarks

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by cb56 »

Ok, set A on my tuner to 435 and the 1st pos. Bb shows in tune with tuning slide all the way in.
Set A on my tuner to 432 and 1st pos. Bb shows in tune with tuning slide pulled out a little over half an inch.
User avatar
Doug Elliott
Posts: 3343
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:12 pm
Location: Maryand

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by Doug Elliott »

When it was made there may have been two tuning slides available, one for high pitch and one for low pitch.
"I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two."
User avatar
BGuttman
Posts: 6259
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:19 am
Location: Cow Hampshire

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by BGuttman »

Doug Elliott wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2023 7:15 pm When it was made there may have been two tuning slides available, one for high pitch and one for low pitch.
The high pitch slide would have been WAY too short. High pitch was A=465 or so.

Beat option for OP is to have the tuning slide shortened, maybe 3/4" (18 mm)
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
cb56
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:58 pm
Location: Missouri Ozarks

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by cb56 »

Man, I hate to do anything to the horn. It sounds beautiful just like it is even with me playing it.
User avatar
Doug Elliott
Posts: 3343
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:12 pm
Location: Maryand

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by Doug Elliott »

I have a Vega (made in Boston) with two tuning slides. The few times I've played it I used the high pitch slide and it was fine.
"I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two."
User avatar
dukesboneman
Posts: 707
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:40 pm
Location: Sarasota, Florida
Contact:

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by dukesboneman »

I played a 1928 78H for ywars and had NO tuning problems at all
cb56
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:58 pm
Location: Missouri Ozarks

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by cb56 »

I've searched as far as I could on the Internet and couldn't find anything about the 78H having a LP or HP version. No markings on my horn to indicate that either. All the serial number and model number stampings on the horn match up so it's not a frankenbone.
No space in the case for a second tuning slide.
Maybe it's just me...
cb56
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:58 pm
Location: Missouri Ozarks

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by cb56 »

Ok, the number on the tuning slide and the bell where the tuning slide goes in is 8L.
Not sure what that means. Upside down it looks like 78.
cb56
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:58 pm
Location: Missouri Ozarks

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by cb56 »

One more interesting(?) fact
I bought a pro tek case to put the horn in. Slide won't fit. Too long.
I sure can pick 'em.
User avatar
ithinknot
Posts: 1105
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:40 pm

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by ithinknot »

Have someone else try it. If it's around 435 for everyone, trim it. (And if it's just you, then you'll know that too.)
User avatar
jacobgarchik
Posts: 207
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:07 pm

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by jacobgarchik »

I don't think conn was stilling doing HP & LP that late.
I have a 20s 78h and it plays fine with a Bach 6 1/2 or stork T1, tuning slide out an inch or so. I have an original Conn Clarke mouthpiece, that would have been paired with the horn at the time, and it's just a tiny bit shallower than a Bach 6 1/2. The stems to those are a little weird though...if anything the Conn Clarke is further out than a modern mouthpiece, which would make it even more flat.
I also have a Conn 4h and that really does need a small mouthpiece to play at pitch, like a 11c or smaller.
I agree worth getting somebody else to play it.
I would also try something quite small like a Bach 12c just to see what happens.
cb56
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:58 pm
Location: Missouri Ozarks

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by cb56 »

I have a 7c ordered
btone
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:14 am
Location: MS
Contact:

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by btone »

I have a 1926 Conn 78h and it tunes normally compared to a modern instrument. The hand slide is definitely on the long side. The 7C may make the difference you need. Good luck.
hyperbolica
Posts: 3135
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 am

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by hyperbolica »

cb56 wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2023 1:43 pm No, even with the slide locked in first position it's still a couple cents flat. Close but not perfect. I have a 7c coming but I really like the way the yamaha 48 sounds with that horn. Oh well practice. Practice practice will most likely be the cure.
If it's that close, I doubt it was built as LP. I'd hesitate to cut the horn if it's that close. My money (short of a crack or leak in the horn) would be on a chop issue that might go away over time.
pjanda1
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:43 pm

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by pjanda1 »

I've had and played a few late 20s Conn trombones of various sizes. None have had pitch problems or needed special mouthpieces. I just sold a 78H bell section from that era and still have the slide. I've got a '26 76H and a '29 24H in my regular rotation. I'd strongly recommend against modifications until you are sure you know what the problem is.

Paul
cb56
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:58 pm
Location: Missouri Ozarks

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by cb56 »

Right. I'm not going to do any modifications to it.
cb56
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:58 pm
Location: Missouri Ozarks

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by cb56 »

My Bach 7c came today and I'm hooked.
A bit brighter edgier tone but my range and flexibility are much better.
Since I'm not an orchestral player and more of a jazz player I'm ok with that.
Horn still plays a bit flat.
User avatar
dukesboneman
Posts: 707
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:40 pm
Location: Sarasota, Florida
Contact:

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by dukesboneman »

Congrats, Give yourself some time
Klimchak
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:38 am

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by Klimchak »

I always had problems with those old Conns playing just a bit flat as well. Could just about make them work. At one time i had a silver plated 78H from the late 20s I think and a 78H special with an 8.75” yellow brass bell. Played great with a gorgeous sound, but if the group played at 442, they did not work.
cb56
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:58 pm
Location: Missouri Ozarks

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by cb56 »

Funny thing is I grew up playing Olds horns with bach mouthpieces Ambassador then Super. All played flat that way. Good for learning alternate positions.
cb56
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:58 pm
Location: Missouri Ozarks

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by cb56 »

I've now tried a yamaha 48, bach 7c and benge 12c with the 78h. No change except for tone gets thinner the smaller I go. Tone wise I like the 7c best. Funny thing is my high Bb (when I can play it) is sharp but middle and low Bb are flat.
Last edited by cb56 on Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
AtomicClock
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:01 pm
Location: USA

Re: Are modern shank mouthpieces ok for my 1929 conn 78h

Post by AtomicClock »

cb56 wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2023 6:32 pm Well shoot. Guess I'll just push the tuning slide all the way in and deal with it.
Or pull out, and call it a trombone in A.
Post Reply

Return to “Mouthpieces”