Conn 88HNV Trombone Review

[conn88Hagmann]

Here is a link to my review. . . Hope it’s of some use.

[Burgerbob]

Nice video! Sound levels were a bit low.

I have a friend that just bought one (getting away from his 88HCLSGX). I'll have to see how his is in the valve range.

[conn88Hagmann]

Nice video! Sound levels were a bit low.

I have a friend that just bought one (getting away from his 88HCLSGX). I'll have to see how his is in the valve range.

Cheers Burger!

I have a 88HOSGX. Well it’s for meals actually, but the silver bell is about as far away as you can get from this thin (ish) wall bell, and the CL valve is also about as far as you can get. That will be a big change!!

[Tbarh]

Recently tried a 88HNV..Nothing wrong with the trigger range on the one i tried…I guess that You (as always with these semi-mass produced horns) have to Try out more than one Horn to find Yours !

[Tbarh]

How does the 88HNV bell compare to a 88HT ?

[Trav1s]

I tried one at a local trombone day last March. It was the one horn on the CS display that I was excited to try and it left me disappointed. I struggle to find the connection to the vintage 88H when so much felt different. I did play a modern 88HT some time ago and would say that bell was lighter than the 88HNV I tried. I saw the price and it was a hard NO for me.

[conn88Hagmann]

The HT is definitely lighter ( I have a 88HT Greenhoe)

[conn88Hagmann]

Recently tried a 88HNV..Nothing wrong with the trigger range on the one i tried…I guess that You (as always with these semi-mass produced horns) have to Try out more than one Horn to find Yours !

I think it’s likely there is nothing wrong with this one either. It’s just not as good as an HO.

[Finetales]

I recently played a friend's new 88HNV in quartets and it was great. Easy to play, nice sound, easy to blend. No complaints!

[conn88Hagmann]

Definitely worth trying a few in the shop then. If you got this one you would be disappointed! Then again, I suppose unless you were playing the bass trombone parts you wouldn’t really suffer with the trigger issues.

I suppose it could be Quality control at the testing end of the process. Or I’m just used to trombones that don’t fight me for a bottom F.

[hstellges]

Thank you for the video! I've had the ability to play a few of these and really enjoyed it! Had some great response throughout the registers and felt great for the price range.

[conn88Hagmann]

It’s strange. Most of the feedback I’ve heard from the guys over here who have been sent one is similar to mine. .

I wonder if they send the duffers to the UK!

[Fidbone]

It’s strange. Most of the feedback I’ve heard from the guys over here who have been sent one is similar to mine. .

I wonder if they send the duffers to the UK!

Like the French with wine?

[MStarke]

Would love to try it some time. I have an Elkhart 88h, a modern and quite recent 88ht and an 88ht with Greenhoe valve. The latter is for me currently the most universal instrument. But the others also have their place. Would be interesting to get a feel how the 88hnv compares. However I cannot really imagine that it would close a relevant gap for myself.

[conn88Hagmann]

I have 2 LT Greenhoe. One a Conn with valve fitted and another is a Greenhoe build using Conn parts with TIS. The bell is definitely zingyer on an LTs. I think the HNV bell is probably better to be fair as a compromise between a standard and LT. It does have that Elkhart Feel when you first blow it for sure. But the plug on the GH is just in a different universe. . .

I will do a review of the two at some stage.

My Elkhart has a Hagmann valve. It’s awesome!

[conn88Hagmann]

I have created a “sound Halo” to bring the LT bell back to something like a standard. . It works well!!

Will be for sale soon. Here is my first attempt in brass and a prototype with engraving in aluminium. They will be like the aluminium one but in Brass. . . With possible posh plating options.

[Posaunus]

I have created a “sound Halo” to bring the LT bell back to something like a standard. . It works well!!

Please help me understand the benefit of this brass ring (bell halo).
Does it change the sound much? In what way. Audible to the player only? The audience only? Or to all?
Does everyone find the change to be an improvement, or is it a case of win something / lose something?
What makes the factory LT bell sound non-standard? Why have an LT bell in the first place?
What would the halo to to a trombone with a non-LT bell? Better? Worse?
Will these devices become a universal must-have, or will they be a trendy flash-in-the-pan?

[conn88Hagmann]

So for me, the Tone Halo gives More core to the sound, especially when playing at volume. It won’t break as quickly and aids creating a mellow sound. The idea is that you can have a light bell, LT, 24 Gauge Edwards, 2RVE7 Shires etc etc and if you want the benefits of a heavier bell possible with out switching you can. Think of the centre you get when you have a screw bell done.

When I played Edwards tenors all the time I had a light bell and a heavy. 319 I think was the light. I would switch depending on the gig, (orchestra, Brass band or Brass ensemble work, solo engagements etc etc.) now I play a Conn (which I have since 2001) I favour the standard bells, but the Greenhoe conns I’ve fallen in love with are light bells. Alas, when playing with an orchestral section who are pumping or with the Brass Bands I work with the light bell just can’t handle the volume required. (For me anyway).

I now have the benefit of the lighter bell, with the possibility of a heavier more centred feel too.

I used my prototype at the British Open band championships last weekend and to be honest it doesn’t come off very often at all. It really helps the LT conns for me. I’ve used it on everything for about 6 months.

Should be coming to market in the next month or so, and soon after the trumpet / cornet version.

I can’t imagine it will be a must have, but it gives options, and for me it really works so hopefully a good number of people will like it

[Posaunus]

So the "halo" goes on and off the bell depending on not only the trombone you are using (especially one with a thin bell), but also the repertoire and the ensemble? Do others in the ensemble / in the audience hear the difference?
[Full disclosure: I've never played any trombones other than old classics (e.g., Elkhart Conn 88H) - so nothing with a modified (or modern) bell.]

[conn88Hagmann]

Yes. When I use the Halo, those around me can perceive a difference in the sound. On a gig in July, Simon Wills fitted it to his Elkhart and it was a very obvious shift in timbre.

[Posaunus]

I've just learned from "hyperbolica" on another post that my Elkhart 88H bell is relatively thin, rather like the modern 88HT:
viewtopic.php?p=220572#p220572
"Sometime in the 90s the [8H / 88H] bells got thicker, not sure exactly when. The classic Elkhart thickness bell became classified as the T (for thin) version (8HT)."

So there might be some benefit for me from the "halo effect" (if I were still playing in a large orchestra)?

[conn88Hagmann]

I've just learned from "hyperbolica" on another post that my Elkhart 88H bell is relatively thin, rather like the modern 88HT:
viewtopic.php?p=220572#p220572
"Sometime in the 90s the [8H / 88H] bells got thicker, not sure exactly when. The classic Elkhart thickness bell became classified as the T (for thin) version (8HT)."

So there might be some benefit for me from the "halo effect" (if I were still playing in a large orchestra)?

It will definitely focus up the sound, especially on a thinner bell trombone.

[harrisonreed]

Just do like this:

Screenshot_20191219-171055.png

88H solved

[conn88Hagmann]

I was searching for a more elegant solution!

[hornbuilder]

The "T" bells were still heavier, (in different places, too) than the Elkhart bells...

[conn88Hagmann]

The "T" bells were still heavier, (in different places, too) than the Elkhart bells...

Really???!!! That’s interesting.

[WGWTR180]

Thanks for the review! I noticed that you play a Doug Elliott mouthpiece, and I’m assuming that you have the appropriate conn shank? It also looks like from the wearer on the shank that you have that the mouthpiece has been sitting further in another instrument at some point. Have you tried different shanks, or Mouthpieces with the new Conn that you are trying?

[hyperbolica]

I'm late to this, but I've used a couple of these wraps or weights on the bell throat, probably most similar to Lindberg's arrangement. One was just a few layers of duct tape. Another was an elastic wrist wrap with some neoprene. In both cases, the goal was to damp out the sympathetic vibration (or possibly to just move the natural frequency out of the trombone playing range) my horns get around F#, and they both work. So I imagine this brass ring would also work, and I'd guess it would work at half the size.

We all hear the stories about screw bells, and how the added mass at the joint changes the playing characteristics of the horn. This is the same thing without the cut. I don't think there's anything new here, and it's certainly not voodoo. Whether the effect can be heard 20 feet in front of the bell as well as 1 foot behind it is a different issue.

The added mass also effects the balance and the overall weight of the horn, both of which effect playability.

Also, with respect to the thickness discussion, BellEnd had an interesting comment a couple of years ago:
viewtopic.php?t=22549

Post by bellend » Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:12 am
During my time as bell maker for Rath trombones I looked into this as part of my research in to vintage instruments.

8H & 88H bells from the Elkhart period were the most consistent in gauge of all the models we had come through the shop. 6H's seemed to have the biggest variation although sadly, I didn't correlate that against any sort of time line ( far too busy).

My own personal conclusion was that the 8H /88H design was in part , like many early American instruments based on a European instrument , most likely German.
Many German instruments feature a very then bell ( quite often one piece) with a nickel silver Kranz covering the last section of the bell flare. My belief is that this design is used to give an easy responding instrument that is also able to handle higher volume levels with out breaking up.

The 8H/88H bells I believe try to replicate this idea in a two piece bell by using a very thin stem 0.3mm ish and a a flare that is approaching 0.8mm at the very edge / The flare gradually goes up in thickness from where it is brazed to the flare , although what process is used to achieve this with consistency at the volumes Conn were making these models I don't know.
I have made a few 'copies' of these bells during my time by hand thinning the flare with a sharpened blade, which did work but was quite time consuming and open to variation.

As to why the bells got thicker at the Artist Symphony stage? I would suspect because it was cheaper and could be more easily made by a less skilled workforce. Despite a lot of people on here's romantic notions about why things change usually it comes down to cost.........

As a last thought I and others observed that the very best playing 8H/88H bells seem to ring to either a G or F# and I found by partially annealing the bell where the flare was joined to the stem I could get most bells close to that pitch.

Also, more on the OP's topic, Keith at the Schmitt Tbone Shop did a comparison of the 88ho, 88hto and 88hnv

[harrisonreed]

The location is important, too. Adding weight near the brace is a lot different than adding a tone ring or this new version of it to the flare.