Notation software vs pep band flip folio size

Post Reply
timothy42b
Posts: 1479
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:51 am
Location: central Virginia

Notation software vs pep band flip folio size

Post by timothy42b »

Some of you write for marching band. How is it done?

I'm memorizing some pieces for an upcoming parade. I can't find my lyre and my bifocals probably wouldn't allow its use anyway. But one of the pieces was handwritten so I put it into my notation software. I use Noteworthy Composer.

It's no issue to read from a tablet while I memorize. But I did attempt to figure how to print, either paper or PDF, in that flip folio size. I failed. Google was no help, I'm not the only person looking.

But I'm sure some of you do it, unless you just print to paper and use scissors.
User avatar
harrisonreed
Posts: 4595
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Contact:

Re: Notation software vs pep band flip folio size

Post by harrisonreed »

Put it in landscape, in the page layout. Use whatever command key breaks staves, usually [enter], into systems that are longer than normal. Alternatively, you select all the measures you want to squeeze into one line, and select the option to "create system". Reduce staff font size to fit more notes on the page.

When you print the landscape (which should be formatted to take up an entire 8.5x11 sheet), print it at 62% or whatever is the correct size for your folio.

Google won't have good answers for how to engrave because most of the answers will be from people who didn't read the user manual for whatever software is being discussed. The good answers and knowledge is usually locked behind a private forum for registered users of commercial software. It's crazy, as soon as you get on those forums, all of a sudden all your questions are answered by staff and developers.

I'm sure it's possible on the freebie software, but might not be as straightforward on it. I do the above on Sibelius. I'm no master engraver, but I try to publish parts that don't look like they are default Finale exports -- respect to people who generate clean, legible parts. That is an art.
boneagain
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:52 pm

Re: Notation software vs pep band flip folio size

Post by boneagain »

I've lost the files, but I did something like that for outdoor chorales a few years ago.
Pretty sure I
1) entered the music with Musescore
2) exported musicxml from Musescore
3) imported into Lilypond with musicxml2ly
4) formatted with Lilypond

That took a while to learn.
Not worth it for one event.
But if you might want to have some Easter tunes outdoors, lyre-sized sheets via that path is pretty helpful.

The first time I used this sequence was for letter sized prints of music with a whole sequence of Christmas carols. I had a whole script system for that, so I could go back and redo the final PDF if I had messed up a note in step 1 without having to do it all by hand.

If you decide to pursue this, let me know. I can dig on my old Mac to see how much still exists somewhere :)

Dave
User avatar
harrisonreed
Posts: 4595
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Contact:

Re: Notation software vs pep band flip folio size

Post by harrisonreed »

Musescore sounds really unoptimized ... That should be something take takes a couple clicks, or a few pushes of hot keys, without having to move from program to program.
User avatar
bitbckt
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:41 am
Location: Maine

Re: Notation software vs pep band flip folio size

Post by bitbckt »

That is not true of Musescore 4. It is not difficult to format in situ.
boneagain
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:52 pm

Re: Notation software vs pep band flip folio size

Post by boneagain »

I checked the more recent Musescore and Lilypond/Frescobaldi combinations.
Hugely easier to enter notes in Musescore (still).
Far more control of the engraving in Lilypond.

That being said, currgent Musescore DOES allow a lot more formatting than was possible before.
The link below is for pep band music. Within it links to another workaround, if the first (more logical) solution ends up fightiing with printing abilities on the PC.
Search for "Printing to pep band size? flip folders?"

https://musescore.org/en/node/8870
User avatar
bitbckt
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:41 am
Location: Maine

Re: Notation software vs pep band flip folio size

Post by bitbckt »

I’m not asserting that Lilypond isn’t a better engraver- it is. MS4 is plenty capable of doing the task here. MS3 was far less capable on many fronts.
timothy42b
Posts: 1479
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:51 am
Location: central Virginia

Re: Notation software vs pep band flip folio size

Post by timothy42b »

Thanks everybody.

I don't really need to do this at the moment but I was curious, and you never know.

I did try harrison's suggestion, fill the page in landscape and print to 62%, and that worked perfectly.

Noteworthy is not freeware anymore. It was when I started using it years ago, but since then I've upgraded to the pro version a couple of times.
AtomicClock
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:01 pm
Location: USA

Re: Notation software vs pep band flip folio size

Post by AtomicClock »

The talk of inches vs mm in that link makes me wonder if American flip folders are different from those in Europe, the same way US letter is different from A4 paper.
Last edited by AtomicClock on Fri Feb 23, 2024 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
bitbckt
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:41 am
Location: Maine

Re: Notation software vs pep band flip folio size

Post by bitbckt »

AtomicClock wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 8:48 am The talk of inches vs mm in that link makes me wonder if American flip folders are different from those in Europe, the same way US letter is different from A4 paper.
Yes, they would probably be either A5 or A6. I marched DCI, so what do I know though.

The metric paper sizes make so much more sense, but that’s a topic/flame war for another day.
timothy42b
Posts: 1479
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:51 am
Location: central Virginia

Re: Notation software vs pep band flip folio size

Post by timothy42b »

Amazon sells flip folders that are 7x6.25 inches. And manuscript paper in A6 landscape.

Once upon a time marches and collections of seasonal music, etc., all came in that march size. The major publishers know - or knew - how to do it. This size isn't my wild idea, it was the standard. Every band library I've ever seen has been full of march size music.

I don't have a full featured notation program, so I anticipated needing a workaround. But if the major pro programs like Finale and Sibelius don't have templates to make it easy, that's just insane.

Ah well. Virtual reality glasses will soon solve the problem. <smiley>
User avatar
harrisonreed
Posts: 4595
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Contact:

Re: Notation software vs pep band flip folio size

Post by harrisonreed »

timothy42b wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 6:48 pm But if the major pro programs like Finale and Sibelius don't have templates to make it easy, that's just insane.

Ah well. Virtual reality glasses will soon solve the problem. <smiley>
Who said they didn't? Sibelius makes it super easy to do what you're trying to do. I suggested the 62% print in landscape because keeping the music digitally in a landscape format (at high resolution on a full letter sized page pdf) is the normal way to keep it for later printing, especially if you don't have A6 paper lying around. (A6 "landscape" paper, btw, that is classic, are they really describing it that way on Amazon? :D )

You can absolutely use A6 or any other standard paper size as a template in Sibelius, or make up a custom size.

I'm all about free stuff but sometimes you need real tools to do a real job.
Aznguyy
Posts: 372
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: Notation software vs pep band flip folio size

Post by Aznguyy »

timothy42b wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 6:48 pm Amazon sells flip folders that are 7x6.25 inches. And manuscript paper in A6 landscape.

Once upon a time marches and collections of seasonal music, etc., all came in that march size. The major publishers know - or knew - how to do it. This size isn't my wild idea, it was the standard. Every band library I've ever seen has been full of march size music.

I don't have a full featured notation program, so I anticipated needing a workaround. But if the major pro programs like Finale and Sibelius don't have templates to make it easy, that's just insane.

Ah well. Virtual reality glasses will soon solve the problem. <smiley>
Sibelius does in fact have a “Band Folio” size for when you export out the parts from the score. It’s automatic landscape and everything is formatted to fit in the flip folder size. You can also select that paper size if you’re working on a single part. And Yes you can print it on regular 8.5x11inch printer paper. You just have to cut it out(always add the printer border for easier cutting) after it’s printed. I’ve been doing it for 15+ years for all the pep/marching bands I teach.
User avatar
Doug Elliott
Posts: 2995
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:12 pm
Location: Maryand

Re: Notation software vs pep band flip folio size

Post by Doug Elliott »

You can also use Statement size which is half an 8-1/2 × 11 sheet, and specify Landscape.
Adjust the borders to whatever you need.
"I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two."
Post Reply

Return to “Technology”