German minibals for Shires

[Jhonybassbone2024]

Regards

I would like to know if anyone has experience changing their "chinese Shires minibals" for some German higher Quality ones that already fit in the Shires levers.

¿Where can I buy it?

Thanks

[tbonesullivan]

I've honestly had the same question for my Bach 36B, which uses a generic minibal linkage that is not great, and also not fully tightened at 90 degrees, so it can cause extra noise.

[pfrancis]

Standard Miniball linkage should be able to be directly swapped for Shires “in house” miniballs (I swapped mine years ago on two valve sections). Caveat, I havent dont this terribly recently on a horn sourced with lots of parts support from Eastman.

Bach “miniballs” are (almost) the worst in my opinion. They often dont articulate properly and can really make a valve feel much worse than it really should feel. On top of that, they use larger screws so retrofitting isn't simple either; not impossible but more costly than one might think.

[Lastbone]

Better miniballs (and better linkage) make a better playing horn, at a cost. The last upgrade I had was about $400. It's worth it, IMO, but you better plan on keeping the horn a long while...

[Nomsis]

these are only sold to professionals: https://www.minibal.de/

But on ebay someone is selling them with world wide shipping at least in these 3 different sizes:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/256135692645
https://www.ebay.de/itm/256024114625
https://www.ebay.de/itm/255615256783

For reference, here is a list of all available sizes: https://www.minibal.de/.cm4all/uproc.ph ... online.pdf

[ghmerrill]

Unless you want to do a DIY project, the best idea is to take it to a professional technician and let him/her decide what is best for your particular needs. While substituting one minibal joint for another seems like a simple and straightforward swap, it's not as straightforward as you might think. Minor differences in dimensions can make things come out in unexpected ways and affect the alignment (and hence the smoothness and effectiveness) of the joints -- so, for example, possibly changing a fully linear action into a partially angular one. And if things are different enough, you can end up with some unexpected binding or friction in the joint. The "barrel" part that the screw goes through can be longer or shorter than your original, for example, and that can make things line up differently.

Otherwise, so-called "universal" minibal joints are available from several sources -- such as Instrument Innovations (https://instrumentinnovations.com/2-minibal-balljoints/), which looks suspiciously like the "sold only to professionals" joints mentioned above. Or if you look on Amazon, look for them under the category of radio controlled auto/boat/airplane accessories. Depending on the rest of the valve lever mechanism, this "simple" task of replacement may not be as simple as you might think. If you want to do the swap all by yourself, you could get lucky -- or not.

[hornbuilder]

Note. The ball joints sold by Instrument Innovations "are" genuine MINIBAL items. Allied Supply do also sell them, under the Getzen Custom Trombone category. Or, your tech can buy direct from Martin Seibold in Germany

[ghmerrill]

Is Allied selling to non-NAPIRT members now?

[hornbuilder]

I'm not a (current) NAPBIRT member. But I am a full time tech.

[ghmerrill]

I'm not a (current) NAPBIRT member. But I am a full time tech.

I thought I'd seen (within the last few years) a requirement for NAPBIRT membership for new accounts (either Allied or Ferree's), but I could be mistaken. I can only find one reference to that on a trumpet forum. So maybe I was mistaken or just saw some misinformation posted. It struck me as odd at the time. I've been glad to see the steps they've taken to finally drag themselves partly into the 20th century on the web, although they're still not quite there, and definitely not in the 21st -- but even the cumbersome approach of just plopping the paper catalog online and making it (sort of) searchable is a big advance for them.

In terms of Bach linkages, I see that Hickey's offers these for several models.

Looking about for more linkage information, I stumbled across this (now almost 20 year old) posting on the old TubeNet site by Dan Oberloh, detailing his impressive conversion of the linkage on a double dependent valve Olds bass trombone. This includes detailed (and reasoned, and polite) back and forth about a DIY approach versus the approach of a highly skilled professional, and the use of different linkage components. It's well worth a read -- even through all the chaff that's thrown up on your screen and you'll need to scroll through.

"Linkage Conversion": http://forums.chisham.com/viewtopic.php?t=6976

[JKBone85]

Reach out to us at Shires. We switched to German miniballs a few years ago.