Criteria to choose which bass trombone to keep

[MrHCinDE]

I’ve just taken delivery of a 2nd bass trombone, at the very most I’d consider bass my third instrument (behind tenor and euphonium/baritone) so I really don’t need two.

Other than the emotional aspect of whichever makes me smile (both do, doesn’t help!) I’m trying to figure out some sort of objective comparison.

I’m planning to take both to a lesson and also hear my teacher’s opinion but would appreciate anyone’s thoughts on how they’ve chosen between two basses.

The two horns in question are a Holton TR-180 and a Bach 50B3OG. Both slides are pretty much in the same condition, about 9/10.

The Holton has an unusual 9.5” yellow brass bell, nickel silver slide and original valves with modernized trigger mechanism.

The Bach has 9.5” gold brass bell, yellow brass slide and original valves, also with what looks an upgraded trigger mechanism which is reasonably fast and quiet.

Which criteria come to mind? What are your opinions on how to weight the criteria?

[harrisonreed]

Definitely listen to what your colleagues, friends, and teacher say.

But otherwise, eenie meanie miney moe

[TomInME]

What I've read on the forum is yellow bells pair best with yellow slides, gold bells pair best with nickel slides. Your setups seem to be in opposite directions from middle-of-the-road - not sure you should keep either as-is.

From personal experience (and confirmed by the forum), original Bach valves are generally crap with a few exceptions that are only meh. Holton's don't have quite the same negative reputation, but old valves are old valves.

Pete Edwards has done some valve-core replacements using 3d-printed valves (in metal), they're a substantial upgrade without having a comma in the price/cost - definitely worth doing for an older horn if that's the primary defect.

Sell the one that doesn't sound the way you want, and use the money to upgrade the other.

[Burgerbob]

1. ease of playing

2. sound

3. does it bring you joy?

I've had plenty of horns that did the first two. And some that only did the 3rd one, probably.

I would say for me, both of those are going to be not keepers (having owned both!). But perhaps the Bach would be overall better.

[EriKon]

1. ease of playing

2. sound

3. does it bring you joy?

I've had plenty of horns that did the first two. And some that only did the 3rd one, probably.

I would say for me, both of those are going to be not keepers (having owned both!). But perhaps the Bach would be overall better.

So, you just keep the ones that fulfill all three of those criteria for longer?

[MStarke]

It's simple. If you have a Holton and a Bach to choose from, just get a decent Conn and keep that one

[AndrewMeronek]

If one is easier to physically deal with on a long gig because of the trigger mechanism, that's my answer.

[MrHCinDE]

I like this, was just looking for something to give me a bit of clarity of thought.

1. ease of playing

2. sound

3. does it bring you joy?

I've had plenty of horns that did the first two. And some that only did the 3rd one, probably.

I would say for me, both of those are going to be not keepers (having owned both!). But perhaps the Bach would be overall better.

For my needs as an occasional doubler, either could be a keeper but I appreciate that there are people with much higher expectations as a bass trombone is an essential tool for their job.

I’ll admit I read the ideas about valve upgrades/modifications in this thread and elsewhere with interest, it wouldn’t be a high priority for me right now but good to know. It looks like the Bach would be a good candidate to exchange the rotors for more modern rotors on, but based on my initial impressions the low B and C are pretty solid already on both horns.

1) I’ll spend a bit of time on the Bach and see how it works out for ease of playing. The Holton has its quirks in that respect but nothing the extra brace on it doesn’t solve. The Holton is certainly lighter to hold. The independent setup of the Bach isn’t a deal maker for me but perhaps a small advantage.

2) Sound is probably an advantage to Bach right now, less flexible but fortunately the ‘default’ setting is what is in my mind as a bass trombone sound concept. I think I would have a hard time playing the Bach in big band. I do have a Bach 42 custom 0.547”/0.562” slide which I might try on the Bach out of interest. I agree with one reply that generally the combo of nickel silver and gold brass can be very nice, if I keep the Bach I’ll keep an eye out for an LT slide but it’s already very good with the yellow brass slide so not urgent.

3) Holton delivers enjoyment with one caveat, I have to be a bit careful about really leaning into it so have to hold back a couple of % sometime. With the Bach I haven’t played it enough to say, I smiled after playing the first few tones which is a positive indication.

@MStarke, as you know I’m a reformed Conn addict, at the moment with one slight lapse, otherwise Bach and King for me these days.

[Burgerbob]

So, you just keep the ones that fulfill all three of those criteria for longer?

Yup. Actually, right now the problem is ALL of my current basses fit all 3 categories. If I had two that would be fine... but I have 5!

[tbonesullivan]

If one is easier to physically deal with on a long gig because of the trigger mechanism, that's my answer.

Seconded. With how hard it can be to find a bass that works well ergonomically, this is a major consideration, and also why I only own Yamaha basses: I just love that trigger setup completely. It's comfortable, and I love the feel of the valve throw. Parts are also relatively easily obtainable if any part of it starts to make noise.

[MrHCinDE]

Short update:

1) Ease of playing
I did find the Bach a bit heavier to start with. Now I’m using a Caldergrip with it and it’s very comfortable, my only minor gripe is that for pieces with rapid mute changes, I don’t trust myself to to get my hand in and out of the grip quickly enough so play some things without it. With the grip, there’s not much between the two horns in terms of comfort. I’ve found myself using the Gb trigger more than expected to make some passages a little easier so the Bach gets some additional points there.

2) Sound
Practicing at home and in rehearsal rooms I’ve been preferring the sound of the Bach. I played it at the dress rehearsal in a concert venue for the first time yesterday in a large concert band with a beefy low brass section (three tubas, one bass trom, four tenor trom, three euphoniums, three oval tenor horns). I felt like the Bach stood up to that pretty well, I was really leaning into it in places and got a few compliments on my sound even. I think I would have struggled to balance up on the Holton without getting into chainsaw/fart machine territory. On the other hand, the acoustic was a bit dead in terms of feedback, behind the bell I felt slightly insecure in a couple of places with the quieter stuff, the Holton is a bit more reassuring in that way.

3) Does it make me smile?
Yes, both, for different reasons.


I’m tending towards keeping both horns for a while longer but if I absolutely had to decide now it’d be to keep the Bach.