Wessex Tubas Bass Trombone for Student

[haydenlance]

I am a highschool student and I have been playing for 5 years now. And I've been playing on a cheap F-Attatchment horn I got at a garage sale when I first started (It was like 20 bucks) . It's not bad but I doesn't even say the name or model, But I looks like a Yamaha ysl 620 or something of the kind. I've taken pretty good care of it. Buttt I think I need an upgrade since my band director has stuck me at the 4th chair in jazz band its getting kinda hard to play those low, lownoted (like c below the staff) And i have heard about wessex and i was wondering if their cheaper bass horn would be good for a student? Any thing is helpful, Thanks!

[RideDirtBikes]

I am also interested in any info on their PBF562. Any input from anyone who has played one would be great. The Wessex website purports to have improved on the original design. The model Chris Stearn contributed PBF565 P is a modern build according to a post from Chris.

[stewbones43]

You should also check out the John Packer bass trombones; JP 232 and JP333 Rath. They are cheaper and at least as good as the Wessex.

Cheers

Stewbones43

[ghmerrill]

A lot of people have used and are using the JP horns -- and you can find various reports on them and videos on YouTube. The same does not appear to be true of the Wessex horn (which I have eyeballed myself before deciding to go in a more expensive direction). I wouldn't make a move on the Wessex until I'd talked to a few people who had actually used it and could give you their feedback. The design appears to be excellent. But it would be important to get some experienced feedback on the production result. Just a thought.

[stewbones43]

Here are a couple of links to Christopher Bill playing JP Rath bass trombones





Worth checking out.

Cheers

Stewbones43

[haydenlance]

You should also check out the John Packer bass trombones; JP 232 and JP333 Rath. They are cheaper and at least as good as the Wessex.

I can't find any JP that is cheaper than Wessex but I found a store (DF Music Inc) that will ship it and has financing. (I mainly need financing since a big $2000 up front is hard for our family but little $70 ones are managable) But they sell a JP 232 and if you finance with Affirm (With a 36 month plan) it is 68.13. I also got a coupon code for 10% off form one of the videos (CBRath10) which took off about $250.

I also should mention it DOES have a 15% APR which brings the total to about $2500

[ghmerrill]

I've just gone through a similar process and spent a LOT of time looking at horns to upgrade to from the (modified) Schiller I've been playing for 10 years. The chance of finding a (good) NEW double valve horn in that range is vanishingly small.

However, you might try looking at what Dillon has. They currently have two of their own stenciled horns -- one for $995 and the other for $1495.

It might be worth talking to them about those, telling them what you're looking for, and seeing if one might be appropriate for you. Are they in the class of a JP Rath? Maybe not. But they might be good for you and within your budget.

Lots of places now offer financing -- including, for example, Sweetwater and The Mighty Quinn. If you really feel you want to go that way.

[haydenlance]

bot of those sites don't have anything really in my budget (around 2000 but will shoot for anything cheaper) But I will keep these places in mind for the future.

[ghmerrill]

I don't think you can find what you want for $2,000 or less in a new horn. It just doesn't exist. And if you're looking below that, and don't want something like the Dillon offerings or Mack Brass, then it might be best to go low end with something like Schiller (jimlaabsmusicstore.com) or Monzani (musicstore.com). You can get a double valve bass for less than $600.

That Schiller I list in my current sig cost me $580 at the time. I made a few mods to it, but it's been fine for about a decade, though I've finally felt the need to replace it.

Life is full of compromises. Think of something in that price range as something that you're just using for a few years to learn on. And if you accidentally back your car over it, you haven't lost much.

[Drombone]

A few (maybe several) years ago, there was quite a bit of chat about Wessex instruments. I'm not going to trawl though the archives, so I'll probably get his name wrong (so apologies in advance) but Chip Hoehler and Chris Stearn were involved in the development of some potentially great instruments. For the most part, I think, they tried to improve on some greats - 88H, 6B, etc.

I played a few at trade stands, met and chatted to Chip for some time. I was impressed.

I then stopped hankering after new trombones, and concentrated on playing the ones I had, better.

About a year ago, I met a 5 year old silver plated Wessex euph. 5 years old? Barely played-in. The plating had worn off. And it played awfully next to a Besson. So I am now doubtful of their longevity.

You get what you pay for. I'd rather get a good 2nd hand instrument than a chinese new one. My R4 cost me less than a new R400. My TR181 was almost taken apart and rebuilt, and still cost me less than a chinese horn.

[ghmerrill]

You get what you pay for.

Sometimes not. Sometimes you just buy something from a vendor who charges you more for something that -- of similar quality and dependability -- you can get from a different vendor at a lower price. That is, sometimes you pay more for something you definitely should have paid less for. Examples of this concerning both Bach and Conn instruments in the recent past are pretty easy to come by.

This isn't, of course, to deny that there are genuine differences in quality and that generally higher quality demands a higher price. It's just to say that if you use cost as your primary criterion of quality, you can get fleeced on that end of the deal as well as on the other.

Caveat emptor

[BGuttman]

Chip Hoehler was doing QC for Wessex on all the trombones they imported. Big problem with Chinese makers is they have (for the most part) no concept of Quality Control. It becomes the job of the importer to do a s**t sort to weed out the bad ones and only sell the good ones. Chip passed away a few years ago and I don't know if Wessex took on another trombonist to do the QC.

From what I understand, Chris Stearn was very happy with the bass trombone design, but Chris doesn't play test every one Wessex imports.

So: long story short, the bass trombone is a nice design but you are on your own whether you get a good one or not.

[Dennis]

You should also check out the John Packer bass trombones; JP 232 and JP333 Rath. They are cheaper and at least as good as the Wessex.

Cheers

Stewbones43

Seconding this. The best horn I played at the NABBA Championship in early April was a JP Rath single bass (JP 233, I think). If I had a regular use-case for a single valve bass, that horn would have come home with me. I played a JP Rath double valve, and it was good but it didn't sing quite the way the single did.

I would not buy a Wessex without being able to play the exact instrument before purchase. I've played some good Wessex instruments (before COVID I played an example of the double valve bass Chris was involved in designing and I would have been happy to take it as a backup to my Bach bass), and I've played some not-so-good Wessex instruments. I'm not sure if it's a matter of having some really good designs and some less-than-great designs, or if it's a matter of a lot of variability at their Chinese factory, or some combination of both. I suspect it's a combination of both factors.

[Chronos91]

There was another bass trombonist in a community band I play in that has the Wessex PBF562 that he got at a pawn shop. It plays well for him and he likes it. If you're going to go down the new Chinese bass route, it's worth looking at as an option.

[ghmerrill]

I'm not sure if it's a matter of having some really good designs and some less-than-great designs, or if it's a matter of a lot of variability at their Chinese factory,

Mostly this in my experience -- coupled with the degree of inspection/testing, and support provided by Wessex for flaws and problems that occur post-purchase. You can find good value for your money there*, but you can't make any assumptions about quality or support.

*E.g., my Champion Eb tuba was a pleasure to play, and the sound and Intonation were fantastic. I loved it. However, things like a couple of solder joints and valve cap threading were not fantastic. But for the price (I paid $2,500 for it at the time) compared to the comparable $10,000 Besson from which it was cloned -- it was indeed fantastic. I was eyeballing that Wessex bass trombone, but decided for a couple of reasons to give it a pass -- despite its attractive design history. Design, prototyping, and production are very different things

[HornboneandVocals]

Going back a bit - I've been seeing many freelancers/doublers using JP bass tbns on gigs, in the right hands they're incredibly solid choices.

As far as Wessex is concerned, a Wessex rep brought in some low brass and trombones to my HS once, and they held up well. Obviously a rep would bring some of the better assembled horns. For the price (duties, shipping, etc) a used (maybe even single valve) bass could be a good route.

[haydenlance]

so if I go the used route what horn would y'all recommend. my MAX budget would be something like $1500 but I would prefer lower. Also do y'all have any thing to say about mack brass? they seem like a competitor to Wessex because of price but there is just less about them.

[ghmerrill]

I owned a Mack Brass euphonium for about 15 years. I found it in every way comparable to my Wessex tuba. In particular, it played extremely well (it's a clone of the Yamaha), but the valve cap threading was pretty much "Chinese standard" at that point in time (I got it several years prior to getting the Wessex tuba), and the brass was relatively soft. I believe that those things have improved since then. However it was well worth the money, and I sold it last year to a happy new owner.

Tom McGrady was great to work with, and highly dependable and responsive. I originally contacted him about a different instrument that he was selling at that time: a 4 rotary valve non-compensating euphonium. However, he told me that while he still had a couple of those, he'd decided not to continue selling them because they had problems that were just a pain and added cost to fix correctly, and he was dumping the remaining ones he had via Ebay -- that if I was really committed to that type of horn, I could get it there, but that I should be aware of the issues. He recommended instead the Yamaclone compensating euph, and that is what I got.

Tom is an old US Army tuba musician (and instructor at the armed forces school of music) and is outrageously honest and straightforward.

I tried a (used) Mack Brass bass trombone at one point, and it seemed fine -- but it wasn't exactly what I was looking for. I've known people who bought Mack Brass French horns for their kids and were very happy with them. Mack Brass is more focused, from the beginning, on the "school market" (from middle through high school and maybe college) whereas while that was originally Wessex's primary market, Wessex quickly expanded into developing a larger stable of (sometimes a bit odd) instruments and more focus on the "adult player" market.

[DeCipherPositions]

so if I go the used route what horn would y'all recommend. my MAX budget would be something like $1500 but I would prefer lower. Also do y'all have any thing to say about mack brass? they seem like a competitor to Wessex because of price but there is just less about them.

Don’t stray away from a used single valve bass; I played a Yamaha 421G all through high school, and I’d put that horn up against anything Chinese besides Y-Fort.

For the record, Yamaha’s 421 model doesn’t pull to E, and I struggled with that for years before I bought my own personal bass a few years ago. If you can find a used Conn 71/72H or Bach 50, both of those horns can pull to E, and will outlive almost anything from china! The quality control is much better on those horns.

[marccromme]

Since your needs seem not super urgend, do yourself a favour and scan the second hand market for a suitable quality bass bone, Benge, King Duo Gravis or 7B, Conn 62H or 112H, Olds, Yamaha, Wilson, or German makers, if they do surface. You will get a much better instrument for about the same price than almost any new Chinese build Wessex, Mach Brass, Nordic, Schiller, whatever. And resale value will be the same if you treat them well. Just my 2Cent worth opinion. ..

[marccromme]

That said, I want to mention that I owned a Wessex Yamaha clone, which played reasonable well, a Nordic with Axials which was plain bad, a Besson which was horrible, so you need to test play before buying.