6 1/2 A on a Conn 88H ?

[NotATrumpet]

I've been reading through older postings regarding the Conn 88H and mouthpieces. I came across a comment along the lines of - "maybe a Bach 6 1/2 A is more suited to the Conn 88H because it's a better match for the leadpipe". - Can anyone expand on that theory or dismiss it and why ?

[hyperbolica]

I'm not an expert on anything, but I've played an 88h since 1975, playing pro for a few years in there. I consider a 5g the base for 88h playing. That's what comes with new 8/88s last time I bought one. 6.5 can be had as large bore, but it's typically sold as a small bore. You can get a large to small adapter for 88h, but to me that just means the 6.5 mouthpieces really weren't intended for 88h or large bore horns in general.

The leadpipe is kind of a weird measure since you can get new 88h from the factory with 5 different slide sizes, and at least half a dozen pipes. so there's not really a standard. And if you still have the Remington pipe in your Elkie, well, that's your fault.

I played a Remington mouthpiece when I had a Remington taper pipe in my 88h, but that was before 1980. Remington is listed on Doug's mouthpiece chart as about the same size as a 5g. Since then I've played at least a Bach 5g, and up to a Schilke 52e2. In DE sizes, I play F or G with 88h with the 547 slide and E when I use 525 slide. Just for reference, Doug's chart says a 6.5 is a C cup, which seems a little small. I would say 6.5al is about right for 522/525 slides.

Anyway, it probably depends on your skills and what you want to do with it, but for general use, I'd recommend a 5g for 88h, and only use a 6.5 size in a special situation (although I can't think of one where I'd actually do that). Be careful of what you read on the internet, even (maybe especially) here. Everyone has an opinion and some odd way of backing it up.

[JohnL]

"maybe a Bach 6 1/2 A is more suited to the Conn 88H because it's a better match for the leadpipe"

A better match than what?

If you're comparing a 6½A to a 6½AL, then yes, the 6½A's throat and backbore are probably a better match for an 88H.

In the Bach world, the large shank 6½AL and the small shank 6½AL both have a .261"/6.63mm ("G") throat and a #420 backbore. That's pretty big for a small shank and on the small side for a large shank (resulting in a notably thick shank wall on the large shank version). On the other hand, a 6½A large shank has a standard large shank throat (.276"/7.00mm) and backbore (#429).

[Doug Elliott]

My D+ cup is approximately the depth of a 6-1/2AL cup.

That depth can work for some players, but it's far from ideal for most. Same for the 6-1/2 rim size, my 100 (1 inch). Good for some players but not most.

[NotATrumpet]

I have to say I've no idea what the person meant by that remark about matching leadpipe. Out of curiosity I did try a 6 1/2 in my Conn for 5 minutes today and it wasn't nice. So no reason to change the 5G.

[WGWTR180]

Before I switched to a Doug Elliott piece I used a 5G. FWIW

[Cmillar]

I used to use a 5G on an old Elkhardt Conn 88H years ago.

Now, I'm back to an nice 88H (1974 with Remington leadpipe receiver).

Doug set me up with an LTF series cup/shank, with the shank built for an old Conn receiver.

Very close to a 5G for feel, sound, and playability. I don't need to 'knock the walls down' as I don't play in a modern large orchestra needing to compete with Shires trombones, but the horn is wonderful for everything I do when I like to have a .547 horn (Easter/Christmas gigs, chamber groups, smaller orchestra work, brass groups, concert bands, etc, etc.)

[Bach5G]

My D+ cup is approximately the depth of a 6-1/2AL cup.

That depth can work for some players, but it's far from ideal for most. Same for the 6-1/2 rim size, my 100 (1 inch). Good for some players but not most.

Is there a combination that works for most players?

[hyperbolica]

Is there a combination that works for most players?

Most 88h players with 547 slide would be on G8, although you could go bigger and smaller. Rim size is more personal. I use a 104 rim, and I've heard many others do the same.

[Doug Elliott]

My G cup works well for "most players" on a large bore - it is close to a typical 5G in depth. But for rim size, the range of 102 to 104, averaging about 102.5, and often a narrow or medium narrow rim. My XT series.

[Bach5G]

I was curious because over the past few years I’ve played DE 101 to 104 and found that 102-103 seemed to be a sweet spot for me, mostly on a G8 but occasionally E8 (all LT). More recently I’ve found a Bach 5GL to my liking. So pretty mainstream. Shires .547 horn, usually no F att these days.

[Posaunus]

I guess I'm pretty mainstream: G8/C Shank (Elkhart taper), LT G Cup, LT 101 or LT 102 Rim.
Works fine for me. Though I have also tried F8/C Shank, LT F Cup.
I don't think I'm a good enough player to fine tune much more, and I'm locked in to the LT series.

[hyperbolica]

I use XT 104 rims for all tenors, and G or F cups for 547 with the G8 or F8 shank. If I'm using the 88h as a 3rd/4th low bone, I might use a MB 110 rim with the J cup and J8 shank.

With my 525 slide, I use an F or E cup with F4 or E4 shanks. Still with the XT 104 rims. Mostly in lexan.

If I switch to bass, I use LB 112 or XB 114 K8 or a Curry 1.5D or 2D. I'm trying to trim this down to just the 2D. I love DE stuff, but the Curry just gets me a little extra of what I'm looking for. Bass has been a real struggle for me for the past 10 years.

With DE stuff I don't feel the need to step outside of mainstream sizes. With Bach or Schilke stuff, I was always trying something larger. I think this is because on DE, you get the rim right first, and then figure out the connection to the horn. With Bach and Schilke you were always just taking whatever rim you got, assuming the cup and shank would somehow compensate for the mismatch. It obviously doesn't work that way.

[UATrombone]

+1 for DE G/G8.
My main combo for 88HCL/SL4747 is XTG103SR/G/G8.
Sometimes, if I need more "compact" sound, it's LTG103/G/G8.
Also I have XT I/I8 and couple of threaded underparts for XT rim.
Big advantage of DE system for me is that "One size fits all", from Alto to Large bore, because I don't like to change rims.

[BoNeLife]

Depends on if the 88 has the Morse tapered lead pipe or Remington. The only long schilke 51 works well on those.

[harrisonreed]

Lindberg's large bore 5CL and 4CL are about a 6.5cup size. The 5CL has a more expansive backbore than the 6.5. The 4CL has a *very* wide throat and tighter backbore.

They are easy to play upstairs like a 6.5, but sound a lot bigger.

Obviously designed to be played on an 88H. They also both insert deeper into the leadpipe and are longer overall than most large bore mouthpieces.