.500/.525

ttf_Stan · Post by **ttf_Stan** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:13 am

I picked up a time-capsule worthy Yamaha 356R from a pawn shop a few weeks ago. Discontinued in America, and replaced internationally with the 356G, Yamaha markets this as an intermediate horn.

It's not an intermediate horn.

The fit/finish is excellent, and the functional differences between this horn and my 822G bass are minimal. And she is a player.

The thing that's really interesting to me is the .500/.525 dual bore. You just don't see this one that often. Put in a 12C it sounds like a .500 horn. Put in a 5GS, it sounds like a .525. That size, plus the 8 inch bell, just blows SO well.

Has anybody else played this size? It's like a Conn 32H, and is just so versatile. Why don't they make more like this?

Stan

ttf_DaveAshley · Post by **ttf_DaveAshley** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:24 am

I just bought a 356R. It's a fantastic horn and I paid less than $300! Super versatile, great sound with lots of overtones.
I'm having a brace put on the tuning slide at a friend's suggestion. If I ever run out of money and can only have one trombone, this might just be the one.

ttf_Stan · Post by **ttf_Stan** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:35 am

Quote from: DaveAshley on Aug 25, 2017, 06:24AMIf I ever run out of money and can only have one trombone, this might just be the one.

That's exactly why I'm selling my other tenors. I'd rather have one instrument that covers "tenor trombone," and this guy feels like THE TICKET.

ttf_pedrombon · Post by **ttf_pedrombon** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:16 am

Quote from: DaveAshley on Aug 25, 2017, 06:24AMI'm having a brace put on the tuning slide at a friend's suggestion.

I recently got a 356G from a forum member, what are the advantages of putting a brace on the tuning slide? The 356G has a reversed tuning slide, is the "R" also reversed?

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:20 am

In this case, r is for red brass

ttf_bassclef · Post by **ttf_bassclef** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:19 am

Quote from: pedrombon on Aug 25, 2017, 07:16AMI recently got a 356G from a forum member, what are the advantages of putting a brace on the tuning slide? The 356G has a reversed tuning slide, is the "R" also reversed?
Not sure what Dave's motivations are, but I'm having the same thing done to my 640, which has the same style brace-less tuning slide.

I expect there might be some sound or response changes to some small degree, but I'm doing it to help improve the balance. It's just a bit nose-heavy (even more so with a mute in) and I play with my slide nearly parallel to the floor.

Also, I believe the "R" refers to a red brass bell.

Also

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:29 am

I've got a 356R and love the sound but find it very stuffy in the high registers. Since I play first chair in my Jazz Band I tend to stick with my 6H. Could the stuffiness be a problem with the valve alignment? The alignment marks look like they're in the right place.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:52 am

Quote from: MitchW on Aug 25, 2017, 09:29AMI've got a 356R and love the sound but find it very stuffy in the high registers. Since I play first chair in my Jazz Band I tend to stick with my 6H. Could the stuffiness be a problem with the valve alignment? The alignment marks look like they're in the right place.

Oddly enough, the markings don't always line up the way they're supposed to. Possible it could be corrosion as well. Among other things like leaks/misalignment of tuning slide or just fmight not be as good of a fit as the 6h is for you.

ttf_Bimmerman · Post by **ttf_Bimmerman** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:01 am

My first 'real' horn was a 356R. Great horn, I wish I hadn't sold it.

I used it for jazz/symphony/concert bands in high school. I didn't know what I had, and sold it in grad school.

ttf_Stan · Post by **ttf_Stan** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:02 am

@Mitch

I'd look at the valve and the water key. Mine does not play stuffy in the high range clear up to

.

Stan

ttf_DaveAshley · Post by **ttf_DaveAshley** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:22 am

I'm adding the brace to stabilize the sound at higher volumes. It tends to get a tad out of control. I expect to lose a little bit of quickness of attacks, but I think it will be a good compromise.

ttf_Stan · Post by **ttf_Stan** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:38 am

Quote from: DaveAshley on Aug 25, 2017, 10:22AMI'm adding the brace to stabilize the sound at higher volumes. It tends to get a tad out of control. I expect to lose a little bit of quickness of attacks, but I think it will be a good compromise.

OT, but have you tried one of Gary Greenhoe's "Braces"? I slapped one on and the change was instant.

Stan

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:18 pm

GG brace = Sauer brace? If so, I think MK or Mike Olson is making them now.

ttf_Malec Heermans · Post by **ttf_Malec Heermans** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:06 pm

I saw that Dan Levine added a brace that appears to be removable from Sweeney Brass to his Yammy. I think he's digging it.

ttf_Malec Heermans · Post by **ttf_Malec Heermans** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:55 pm

Pics:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9Wf5HPZTymmb0x0SXdiRExncjA

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:56 pm

The Eliott Mason horn is also 500/525 and it was one of the most interesting commercial horns I've ever played.

ttf_davdud101 · Post by **ttf_davdud101** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:39 pm

If anyone comes across another 356... let me know!!

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:59 pm

There's a facebook group, I don't recall which one it is but its one of the trombone exchanges... where someone is selling an Elliott Mason for $900. Seems low, if you go for that make sure you do PayPal for sure to cover in case its a scam but he seems legit. No F attachment though.

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:50 pm

Don't forget the Kanstul 760. You probably won't find one used. Rumored to be a great horn.

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:00 pm

I came across a used 356 in the LMS. I quite liked it but was disappointed it was not compatible with a single bore 354 slide. I did think, however, that the 356 felt a little like the 354, that is, a student horn.

ttf_davdud101 · Post by **ttf_davdud101** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:11 pm

Quote from: Ellrod on Aug 30, 2017, 08:00PMI came across a used 356 in the LMS. I quite liked it but was disappointed it was not compatible with a single bore 354 slide. I did think, however, that the 356 felt a little like the 354, that is, a student horn.

Ouchies! I've been searching high and low for that horn for 4 years since I've always wanted a red or rose bell with trigger that takes a small shank mouthpiece. Wonder how it'd function for lead playing. How does it stack up to, say a 646?

In honesty, after my taste, the 354 has a bit of a TOO warm, rich sound when i'm behind it for what I prefer for lead playing. Though perhaps other disagree - or maybe I'm just doing something wrong.

ttf_renbaroque · Post by **ttf_renbaroque** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:02 pm

Quote from: davdud101 on Aug 30, 2017, 08:11PMOuchies! I've been searching high and low for that horn for 4 years since I've always wanted a red or rose bell with trigger that takes a small shank mouthpiece.

Well, there are two on eBay right this moment, with many more have come and gone there for the last 4 years... Any reason why you don't want to go to the eBay route?

Like this;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-356R-Trombone-Excellent-/282627156459?hash=item41cde429eb:g:QuQAAOSwsIZZoxLO

356R will be 'warmer' than 354, though. 356G to me is somewhat brighter than R (I think it is matter of having lower point of changing color) but still warmer than 354. Dual bore will do that I suppose.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:01 am

Quote from: davdud101 on Aug 30, 2017, 08:11PMOuchies! I've been searching high and low for that horn for 4 years since I've always wanted a red or rose bell with trigger that takes a small shank mouthpiece. Wonder how it'd function for lead playing. How does it stack up to, say a 646?

In honesty, after my taste, the 354 has a bit of a TOO warm, rich sound when i'm behind it for what I prefer for lead playing. Though perhaps other disagree - or maybe I'm just doing something wrong.

The 64x series are fantastic. If I could choose I'd get a 646 over a 356 every time.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:17 am

But 646 is a straight 0.525 bore, not a dual.

ttf_bonesmarsh · Post by **ttf_bonesmarsh** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:30 am

Any Olds Ambassador Bass/Silverstar/Recording F is .500/.510.

They're cheap and common on ebay. 8 1/2" bell, dual bore ---a perfect German tenor clone.

ttf_greenbean · Post by **ttf_greenbean** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:22 pm

Quote from: renbaroque on Aug 30, 2017, 09:02PMWell, there are two on eBay right this moment, with many more have come and gone there for the last 4 years... Any reason why you don't want to go to the eBay route?

Like this;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-356R-Trombone-Excellent-/282627156459?hash=item41cde429eb:g:QuQAAOSwsIZZoxLO

356R will be 'warmer' than 354, though. 356G to me is somewhat brighter than R (I think it is matter of having lower point of changing color) but still warmer than 354. Dual bore will do that I suppose.

This horn appears to be in nice shape. Make them an offer!

ttf_leec · Post by **ttf_leec** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:19 pm

Quote from: Stan on Aug 25, 2017, 06:13AMI picked up a time-capsule worthy Yamaha 356R from a pawn shop a few weeks ago. Discontinued in America, and replaced internationally with the 356G, Yamaha markets this as an intermediate horn.

It's not an intermediate horn.

The fit/finish is excellent, and the functional differences between this horn and my 822G bass are minimal. And she is a player.

The thing that's really interesting to me is the .500/.525 dual bore. You just don't see this one that often. Put in a 12C it sounds like a .500 horn. Put in a 5GS, it sounds like a .525. That size, plus the 8 inch bell, just blows SO well.

Has anybody else played this size? It's like a Conn 32H, and is just so versatile. Why don't they make more like this?

Stan

I have one and like it a lot. More mellow than my 354 usually played with a Yam 48

ttf_salsabone · Post by **ttf_salsabone** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:54 pm

I have a Kanstul 760! It is no rumour...it is a great horn. I would also entertain offers!!! maybe!!!

ttf_Dukesboneman · Post by **ttf_Dukesboneman** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:31 am

That`s the same bore configuration as the Conn 32H

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:41 am

Quote from: Dukesboneman on Yesterday at 04:31 AMThat`s the same bore configuration as the Conn 32H
But with an F attachment!

ttf_Dukesboneman · Post by **ttf_Dukesboneman** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:16 am

We had (or Have) about 6 of these at the school I used to teach at.
They have lasted much longer than I thought they would

ttf_Tarkus697 · Post by **ttf_Tarkus697** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:24 am

Can vouch for this! I borrowed Salsabone's 760 for a few gigs and it's a wonderful playing horn. Super responsive and well above the "intermediate" level they advertise it at.

Quote from: salsabone on Oct 15, 2017, 06:54PMI have a Kanstul 760! It is no rumour...it is a great horn. I would also entertain offers!!! maybe!!!

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:20 am

Quote from: salsabone on Oct 15, 2017, 06:54PMI have a Kanstul 760! It is no rumour...it is a great horn. I would also entertain offers!!! maybe!!!

salsabone, check your pms

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:20 am

Quote from: salsabone on Oct 15, 2017, 06:54PMI have a Kanstul 760! It is no rumour...it is a great horn. I would also entertain offers!!! maybe!!!

salsabone, check your pms