yeah thats a good point that i shouldnt be searching for the "holy grail" of trombones. i may never find it. it seems like lot of these places are a decent way away from me so maybe i will plan a trip. volkweins in pittsburgh sadly does not have too many instruments (from what i have seen). and BGuttman's response about getting a bigger horn is a pretty good idea. i play 1st in college because i am the only major and some majors that play different instruments play 2nd, 3rd etc. I dont insist on playing first, i guess i was just looking at it from the perspective of prob another 3 years of college on 1st. I play 2nd all through high school so i dont have a fit if i dont play lead, doesnt really bother me. Maybe i should consider a King 3B? I still play Fs on my conn 88ho so a .508 shouldnt be too much of a problem. And from what I have researched the trombonist who played with maynard mostly used 3Bs to blend in and i imagine thats true with most big bands. In case if I do combo work a 3B would most likely blend better.
Looking For A Good Jazz Trombone
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ttf_nickrex37
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ttf_BGuttman
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Looking For A Good Jazz Trombone
There is a universe of trombones out there that will do what you want and sound good doing it.
Find a couple and try them and select what works best for you.
The King 3B and its Bach cousin the 16M have been used as commercial and jazz horns for at least a half a century and are still going strong. The Yamaha 691 is also in this size.
Or the slightly smaller horns work well also. Lots of guys like Conn 6H. Want a newer version? Try a Kanstul 1606 (which is a Kanstul copy of a Williams copy of the 6H; both improved along the way).
Contact DJ Kennedy and see what he has stashed in his house(s).
Good luck.
Find a couple and try them and select what works best for you.
The King 3B and its Bach cousin the 16M have been used as commercial and jazz horns for at least a half a century and are still going strong. The Yamaha 691 is also in this size.
Or the slightly smaller horns work well also. Lots of guys like Conn 6H. Want a newer version? Try a Kanstul 1606 (which is a Kanstul copy of a Williams copy of the 6H; both improved along the way).
Contact DJ Kennedy and see what he has stashed in his house(s).
Good luck.
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ttf_anonymous
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Looking For A Good Jazz Trombone
Quote from: colin on Jul 31, 2008, 01:24AMBetter still though if you find a horn which allows you to play top D unstrained without practising.
Lets be honest here. Yes obviously practice helps. I can play better for longer when I practice but it IS easier to play lots of top D's (and for longer) on my Yamaha 697Z than my Conn 88H. The Z is also much brighter, lighter and cuts through an electric rhythm section more easily.
Of course, I'm just suggesting to be open to horns that are a little bigger as well as the smaller ones. I have an old, tiny, King Tempo that I can play high notes on just fine, but it feels awful for me otherwise because of the way I play and the drastic difference between that and the large bore Shires that I spend most of my time playing. (and as BGuttman pointed out, a slightly larger horn is could be more logical for those of us who aren't necessarily going to only play lead in a big band for the rest of our lives) I'm not prejudice against playing small horns or anything, I just think that in some cases it may not be the best solution.
nickrex, If you can make it to the ETW it's an awesome place to try out a variety of setups and hear really awesome musicians. It's probably a 6 or so hour drive... if you can arrange it, definitely check it out!
Lets be honest here. Yes obviously practice helps. I can play better for longer when I practice but it IS easier to play lots of top D's (and for longer) on my Yamaha 697Z than my Conn 88H. The Z is also much brighter, lighter and cuts through an electric rhythm section more easily.
Of course, I'm just suggesting to be open to horns that are a little bigger as well as the smaller ones. I have an old, tiny, King Tempo that I can play high notes on just fine, but it feels awful for me otherwise because of the way I play and the drastic difference between that and the large bore Shires that I spend most of my time playing. (and as BGuttman pointed out, a slightly larger horn is could be more logical for those of us who aren't necessarily going to only play lead in a big band for the rest of our lives) I'm not prejudice against playing small horns or anything, I just think that in some cases it may not be the best solution.
nickrex, If you can make it to the ETW it's an awesome place to try out a variety of setups and hear really awesome musicians. It's probably a 6 or so hour drive... if you can arrange it, definitely check it out!
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ttf_djlovell
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Looking For A Good Jazz Trombone
Quote from: BarryLee on Apr 16, 2008, 08:41PMThere's SO many good horns out there.
Nobody's mentioned a 24H. It's a straight .485, blows like a .508 if you want to give it a little time on the low end.
Really extraordinary... but everybody gives you the fish-eye if you bring it in into some bigband situation.
****'em... The horn is unbelievable! Try one....
That is a WONDERFUL horn. I got a 1928 (first year) model for about $250 on eBay. It is gorgeous after getting a couple dents out, and the slide is great for the age. At University jazz ensemble, people are mind blown at how tiny it is, then astonished that it can scream and pop out a pedal f with equal finesse and the same velvety full tone...on a 12c. I have no issue on lead blending with my setion, who all play .547 or bass. People get too hung up on horn characteristics and model. Size/material/weight don't matter as much as the horn itself. There's my 3 cents.
Nobody's mentioned a 24H. It's a straight .485, blows like a .508 if you want to give it a little time on the low end.
Really extraordinary... but everybody gives you the fish-eye if you bring it in into some bigband situation.
****'em... The horn is unbelievable! Try one....
That is a WONDERFUL horn. I got a 1928 (first year) model for about $250 on eBay. It is gorgeous after getting a couple dents out, and the slide is great for the age. At University jazz ensemble, people are mind blown at how tiny it is, then astonished that it can scream and pop out a pedal f with equal finesse and the same velvety full tone...on a 12c. I have no issue on lead blending with my setion, who all play .547 or bass. People get too hung up on horn characteristics and model. Size/material/weight don't matter as much as the horn itself. There's my 3 cents.
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ttf_gregs70
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Looking For A Good Jazz Trombone
Wow,did a nine year old thread just get responded to?
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ttf_dj kennedy
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Looking For A Good Jazz Trombone
================GIANT STEPS ========
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ttf_hyperbolica
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Looking For A Good Jazz Trombone
Old post notwithstanding, I recently obtained a 1936 silver 24h in nice condition. Great slide. Small bell. The horn is pretty heavy for its size, but it plays great. I'm subbing on lead in a big band for a Dec concert. They are used to a 36b on lead. The rest of the section is 6h, 78h,73h. So I think the 24h will fit fine with that.
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ttf_davdud101
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Looking For A Good Jazz Trombone
Quote from: hyperbolica on Oct 10, 2017, 07:40PMOld post notwithstanding, I recently obtained a 1936 silver 24h in nice condition. Great slide. Small bell. The horn is pretty heavy for its size, but it plays great. I'm subbing on lead in a big band for a Dec concert. They are used to a 36b on lead. The rest of the section is 6h, 78h,73h. So I think the 24h will fit fine with that.
How does it play in comparison to, for example, a Yamaha 354 in your opinion?
How does it play in comparison to, for example, a Yamaha 354 in your opinion?
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ttf_dj kennedy
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Looking For A Good Jazz Trombone
HEAVY SUPER SOLID ---VERY COMFORTABLE===DELUXE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and beautiful !!!!!!!! 
Quote from: hyperbolica on Oct 10, 2017, 07:40PMOld post notwithstanding, I recently obtained a 1936 silver 24h in nice condition. Great slide. Small bell. The horn is pretty heavy for its size, but it plays great. I'm subbing on lead in a big band for a Dec concert. They are used to a 36b on lead. The rest of the section is 6h, 78h,73h. So I think the 24h will fit fine with that.
Quote from: hyperbolica on Oct 10, 2017, 07:40PMOld post notwithstanding, I recently obtained a 1936 silver 24h in nice condition. Great slide. Small bell. The horn is pretty heavy for its size, but it plays great. I'm subbing on lead in a big band for a Dec concert. They are used to a 36b on lead. The rest of the section is 6h, 78h,73h. So I think the 24h will fit fine with that.
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ttf_hyperbolica
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Looking For A Good Jazz Trombone
Quote from: davdud101 on Oct 10, 2017, 07:50PMHow does it play in comparison to, for example, a Yamaha 354 in your opinion?
I've never played a Yamaha 354, so I don't know. I'd expect the 24h to be a bit heavier, though. It's a much older horn, I think the slide is narrower on the 24h, and the bell smaller, so the articulations might be faster. From what I read the 354 is nothing to sneeze at. I have a 651 which is nice, but somewhat... one dimensional in comparison. I don't mean that to disparage the Yamaha. I really like the horn. It has a much simpler sound. That has been true of most of the Yamahas I've played. Even with a red bell, the 651 is still kind of one dimensional. I had a 691 as well that was similar, but bigger bore with a yellow bell. Played great, sounded great, but the sound was different. Not as warm as a Conn. Maybe a little brighter, definitely not as much going on within the sound.
I've never played a Yamaha 354, so I don't know. I'd expect the 24h to be a bit heavier, though. It's a much older horn, I think the slide is narrower on the 24h, and the bell smaller, so the articulations might be faster. From what I read the 354 is nothing to sneeze at. I have a 651 which is nice, but somewhat... one dimensional in comparison. I don't mean that to disparage the Yamaha. I really like the horn. It has a much simpler sound. That has been true of most of the Yamahas I've played. Even with a red bell, the 651 is still kind of one dimensional. I had a 691 as well that was similar, but bigger bore with a yellow bell. Played great, sounded great, but the sound was different. Not as warm as a Conn. Maybe a little brighter, definitely not as much going on within the sound.
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ttf_hyperbolica
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Looking For A Good Jazz Trombone
Quote from: davdud101 on Oct 10, 2017, 07:50PMHow does it play in comparison to, for example, a Yamaha 354 in your opinion?
I've never played a Yamaha 354, so I don't know. I'd expect the 24h to be a bit heavier, though. It's a much older horn, I think the slide is narrower on the 24h, and the bell smaller, so the articulations might be faster. From what I read the 354 is nothing to sneeze at. I have a 651 which is nice, but somewhat... one dimensional in comparison. I don't mean that to disparage the Yamaha. I really like the horn. It has a much simpler sound. That has been true of most of the Yamahas I've played. Even with a red bell, the 651 is still kind of one dimensional. I had a 691 as well that was similar, but bigger bore with a yellow bell. Played great, sounded great, but the sound was different. Not as warm as a Conn. Maybe a little brighter, definitely not as much going on within the sound.
I've never played a Yamaha 354, so I don't know. I'd expect the 24h to be a bit heavier, though. It's a much older horn, I think the slide is narrower on the 24h, and the bell smaller, so the articulations might be faster. From what I read the 354 is nothing to sneeze at. I have a 651 which is nice, but somewhat... one dimensional in comparison. I don't mean that to disparage the Yamaha. I really like the horn. It has a much simpler sound. That has been true of most of the Yamahas I've played. Even with a red bell, the 651 is still kind of one dimensional. I had a 691 as well that was similar, but bigger bore with a yellow bell. Played great, sounded great, but the sound was different. Not as warm as a Conn. Maybe a little brighter, definitely not as much going on within the sound.