New Bach 42t with a gold Mount Vernon style bell

ttf_Charleslongino · Post by **ttf_Charleslongino** » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:56 pm

I am selling a new Bach 42t with a gold Mount Vernon style bell. This is a very rare bell that has one of the most beautiful engravings I have ever seen. The horn plays great and is new!
Comes with a standard bach trombone case. Still has plastic with it. Make an offer!
Here is a video of the horn in action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5aB7iBC8r0

Email [url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url] for detailed pictures.

ttf_pompatus · Post by **ttf_pompatus** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:13 am

The bell on my own horn is supposed to be a copy of a lightweight gold brass Mt Vernon bell, which happens to be the best Bach Ive played on, by far. That style of Bach is fantastic and very responsive. Ive not played the heavy version, signified by the H in your model number, but if yours is anything close to my factory Mt Vernon copy, it should be a great horn.

Best of luck with the sale!

ttf_Charleslongino · Post by **ttf_Charleslongino** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:08 am

Okay here is the story on the bell. It is a heavy Mount Vernon style bell. However, even the heavy MV bells are much thinner than the regular light bells from Bach. This is one of the same bells that Jay Friedman plays on. So, it is a heavy MV bell but is much lighter than that of a regular light bell.The horn is the most responsive horn I have ever played on and it just sounds so good. I was SO close to keeping it and selling my Shires because one of them have to go. So, whoever buys this will get an amazing horn. This horn is super rare

ttf_elmsandr · Post by **ttf_elmsandr** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:43 am

Quote from: Charleslongino on Yesterday at 05:08 AMOkay here is the story on the bell. It is a heavy Mount Vernon style bell. However, even the heavy MV bells are much thinner than the regular light bells from Bach. This is one of the same bells that Jay Friedman plays on. So, it is a heavy MV bell but is much lighter than that of a regular light bell.The horn is the most responsive horn I have ever played on and it just sounds so good. I was SO close to keeping it and selling my Shires because one of them have to go. So, whoever buys this will get an amazing horn. This horn is super rare
Any support for that claim? H means heavy in bach lingo. This tells me it is nothing like any Mt.Vernon 42 flare Ive seen.

The Friedman bells have a star and are much lighter, not heavy at all.

Im quite confused by your description.
Andy

ttf_Charleslongino · Post by **ttf_Charleslongino** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:57 am

Quote from: elmsandr on Yesterday at 06:43 AMAny support for that claim? H means heavy in bach lingo. This tells me it is nothing like any Mt.Vernon 42 flare Ive seen.

The Friedman bells have a star and are much lighter, not heavy at all.

Im quite confused by your description.
Andy
Yes, I called the factory with the serial number to get clarification. H means heavy on this bell too. However, it is a Mount Vernon style bell meaning that it is still very thin, even though it is a heavy bell, compared the bach bells of today. Heavy for a mount vernon bell but very thin still compared to other regular bach bells. Also, the bell does not have a soldered rim. It is a custom made trombone and these are the specifications from the factory itself.

ttf_bigbassbone1 · Post by **ttf_bigbassbone1** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:09 pm

What markings are on it to identify that it is a "Mt. Vernon style bell"? Does it say Mt. Vernon anywhere on it? Or have a symbol to denote that it is in fact different?

ttf_jmarks · Post by **ttf_jmarks** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:59 pm

That's me in the youtube video playing the horn. While it seems strange to have a "GH" marked on the bell, I can vouch that the bell is quite thin. It's a very responsive instrument. It seems misleading that an "H" (typically meaning "heavy") is stamped on the bell, but I assure you that the bell is thin.

Feel free to reach out to me about questions concerning the playing characteristics. Horn is in perfect condition and is a real bargain (beautiful to look at too).

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:52 am

I went ahead and merged the identical topics. We don't allow bump posts in the classifieds, but it hasn't been enforced very strictly and you're new so so a merge should be fine for now. I'll remove future bump posts though! We also typically frown on comments but for the sake of clarifying something that is an important aspect its fine.

A few comments as to why you're being met with resistance:

"Mount Vernon" manufactured horns are quite rare, if not special, particularly sine they haven't been manufactured in over 50 years at this point. "Duplication" of a bell isn't as straightforward as making a mandrel of a particular shape; the source material thickness all the way through the manufacturing process is quite important. So describing something thusly is going to be met with skepticism unless there is evidence (perhaps even an correspondence from Bach that could at least be verified by someone interested?) to support that claim.

Similarly, or perhaps instead, a description of why or how the bell is thinner, or more "Mt. Vernon" like than any other bell produced since then. (Bell gauge, actual weight comparison,e tc.) I can't find the source on this at the moment, but its been reported by some of the techs here that a 42[Y] and a 42G bell actually start with different weights such that if you compare the two bells you're comparing both weight and bell material. (The thread should have something to do with adding a brass weight to the bell near the stem. A "scientific" study of bell weight (and ONLY the weight) influencing sound... it was an interesting read to say the least...). Or, very generally, weights would be something like 42LW -> 42GLW -> 42 -> 42G -> 42H -> 42GH. Or in other words, this bell is probably improperly stamped as it would have to be on the opposite side of its normal spectrum of weight to be "much lighter than that of a regular light weight bell". Or it would have had to have been buffed a LOT to remove weight (in which case it would be clarifying about the process; although that would be quite the revelation that Mt. Vernon horns were heavy bells that had been buffed down substantially, etc.)

I'm sure it plays well. I have a similar horn for sale at the moment on Brassark. Its one of the first Shires trombones produced (serial # in the 1000s). Its from a time when heavy was in vogue, and the bell (unstamped, so just a regular "1" bell from the era) is quite heavy. But the horn plays marvelously! Not my cup of tea, but the horn plays very well with itself. I could easily see if I were to not know anything about its specs that I would call it a "light" horn. In other words, this ad might be the culmination of a version of "the telephone game" where one truth gets turned into something slightly off, etc. until "Mt. Vernon like" basically means the horn plays well and its a little thinner than a normal gold bell, etc. I could be quite wrong about that! But any evidence that you can provide is going to help your case out for sure! Good luck selling it and if you'd like, perhaps start a thread on "instruments" about it because recording such an anomaly may well help someone similar in the future. Especially with some substantiating documents etc. We love hearing about those types of things.

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:22 am

How is this a new horn? Is the bell added on as a mod or is it all original?

ttf_Charleslongino · Post by **ttf_Charleslongino** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:07 pm

Sold. Please delete