TromboneChat

la  or  burbank  ????????????????????????????????????????




Quote from: Richard Tadaki on Jul 02, 2013, 11:37PMHi all,

Is there a trombone out there that's readily available that blows somewhat like a Williams 6?  How about a Bach 12 or King 2B?

Aloha,
Richard

Quote from: dj kennedy on Jul 03, 2013, 04:19PMla  or  burbank  ????????????????????????????????????????


Would enjoy reading your summary of the differences between LA and Burbank horns.  Or anyone else's for that matter.

Quote from: JohnL on Jul 03, 2013, 07:40AMHave you tried a Kanstul 1606?

Oh yeah!  I completely forgot about the 1606! 

Quote from: dj kennedy on Jul 03, 2013, 04:19PMla  or  burbank  ???????????????????????????????????????


I've only played Burbanks.  I would love to check out an LA.  Maybe we should talk about that one of these days.

I once played an amazing 3B.  Unfortunately I've never played any other that was that good.

Happy 4th of July everyone.

Aloha,
Richard

My 1606 blows a lot like DJ's Burbank.

Quote from: The Sheriff on Jul 04, 2013, 08:23PMMy 1606 blows a lot like DJ's Burbank.

Scott, if you still have the prototype... That was the best 1606 I've played. What a great trombone

Is that the one they had at the ITF in Ithaca a few years ago, the first one they made?
(I think it was the one in Ithaca)
Yeah, that was a great horn.

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Jul 04, 2013, 09:14PMIs that the one they had at the ITF in Ithaca a few years ago, the first one they made?
(I think it was the one in Ithaca)
Yeah, that was a great horn.

That's the one!

Yes, I still have the prototype 1606. It really is a great horn, and very reminiscent of DJ's excellent Burbank 6. The Kanstul has a lighter bell than DJ's 6 and that translates to a brighter sound than his 6. I'm lucky to have it. It's a keeper until I retire or die, whichever comes 1st

Which brings to mind; prototypes. Every prototype I have played plays better than the production models.???????? I don't get it.

Prototype = careful design and assembly
Production = sloppy work as fast as possible

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Jul 10, 2013, 06:21PMPrototype = careful design and assembly
Production = sloppy work as fast as possiblePrototypes can be kinda ugly, too - it depends on what stage the R&D is at. If it's the last one before production, it's usually beautiful. For one thing, it's going to be used to sell the product. If, on the other hand, they're still working out the design? It might play well, but from a cosmetic standpoint, it's usually a horn only a mother could love.

Makes sense, but in the case of the 1606 proto, it uses the model 750 bell to hand slide receiver whereas the production model uses its own Williams type of receiver. The proto also has a heavier nickel hand slide as compared to the production model.

The production models are very good, but the prototype I have is a very special horn.

Quote from: The Sheriff on Jul 10, 2013, 06:59PMMakes sense, but in the case of the 1606 proto, it uses the model 750 bell to hand slide receiver whereas the production model uses its own Williams type of receiver. The proto also has a heavier nickel hand slide as compared to the production model.

The production models are very good, but the prototype I have is a very special horn.
I feel the same about Kanstul prototypes. I have a later prototype Kanstul 975 Euphonium that plays completely different from the production ones. Their prototypes just seem to play with more character then their production models.

I'm a big believer in heavy hand slides... particularly the grip... when this stuff is heavy the horn just pops...

I posted this over in "Mouthpieces" and got no response, so I thought I'd try here.

I came across an old Earl Strickler mouthpiece. I understand that Earl Strickler worked with Earl Williams. Anybody on this board have information about the mouthpiece?

Quote from: Richard Tadaki on Jul 02, 2013, 11:37PMHi all,

Is there a trombone out there that's readily available that blows somewhat like a Williams 6?  How about a Bach 12 or King 2B?

Aloha,
Richard

Kanstul built me a 1606 with a heavy weight, unsoldered bell and a brass handslide.
WOW!! I play the 1606 every day, while the Bach 12, the King 2B Silvertone, and the Shires 500 gather dust on their stands.

Quote from: CharlieB on Jul 11, 2013, 09:31AMI posted this over in "Mouthpieces" and got no response, so I thought I'd try here.

I came across an old Earl Strickler mouthpiece. I understand that Earl Strickler worked with Earl Williams. Anybody on this board have information about the mouthpiece?
I'm afraid the silence you're getting is because none of us knows anything. I own a Strickler trombone, and I've seen a few others (less than a handful), but that's about it. Never seen a Strickler mouthpiece.

I have two Earl Williams mpc's. If that helps any.

Both are # 2's.

T.

any  model  8   on the market  now ??????????????????

Hi to the Williams fans.........I have played trombone professionally now for 60 years
and am a definite Williams (Burbank, that is!) fan.......I saw a reference to Jack Teagarden among the many messages on file and I can confirm that he played a Burbank model 6.......I met him when I was co-director of the National Jazz Federation of Great Britain......We had arranged for Tea to bring an all-star combo over here for a concert tour....it included Max Kaminsky Earl Hines Cozy Cole Jack Lesberg and during their tour I interrupted our own tour to visit Jack's Concert a couple of days after our Concert at the same venue in Bradford, England...My then wife, singer Ottilie Patterson joined me that day and we were shocked to find Jack and a couple of others had apparently caught an influenza epidemic and were very happy for us to join in and take some of the strain!......Jack lent me his model 6 and I was hooked within 10 minutes!........For many years I never found a Williams in England but a couple of years ago I did.......A Burbank model 4  and later a 2019 mpdel 6 from Tennessee (slide only Williams)......The mpdel 4 is fine...........
I attach a ohoto from September 27 1957 at London Airport with myself, Ottilie and
you-knpw-who....I treasure this picture..........I last saw Jack in New Orleans when we had a concert there and Jack had a week in a big club on Bourbon Street.
Greetings to all trombone lovers,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Chris Barber

Quote from: Chris Barber on Aug 21, 2013, 12:33PMHi to the Williams fans.........I have played trombone professionally now for 60 years
and am a definite Williams (Burbank, that is!) fan.......I saw a reference to Jack Teagarden among the many messages on file and I can confirm that he played a Burbank model 6.......I met him when I was co-director of the National Jazz Federation of Great Britain......We had arranged for Tea to bring an all-star combo over here for a concert tour....it included Max Kaminsky Earl Hines Cozy Cole Jack Lesberg and during their tour I interrupted our own tour to visit Jack's Concert a couple of days after our Concert at the same venue in Bradford, England...My then wife, singer Ottilie Patterson joined me that day and we were shocked to find Jack and a couple of others had apparently caught an influenza epidemic and were very happy for us to join in and take some of the strain!......Jack lent me his model 6 and I was hooked within 10 minutes!........For many years I never found a Williams in England but a couple of years ago I did.......A Burbank model 4  and later a 2019 mpdel 6 from Tennessee (slide only Williams)......The mpdel 4 is fine...........
I attach a ohoto from September 27 1957 at London Airport with myself, Ottilie and
you-knpw-who....I treasure this picture..........I last saw Jack in New Orleans when we had a concert there and Jack had a week in a big club on Bourbon Street.
Greetings to all trombone lovers,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Chris Barber

Welcome to the forum! I've been a follower of you and your big band for years, especially with YouTube videos. I like the latest version with you and Bob Ironside on trombone and Bert Brandsma on Sax/Clarinet.

 
WOW   CHRIS  BARBER 
 SLIDIN SELENA
   ANTIQUE  SIX  !!!!!!!!!!!
---------------------------------------------



Quote from: Chris Barber on Aug 21, 2013, 12:33PMHi to the Williams fans.........I have played trombone professionally now for 60 years
and am a definite Williams (Burbank, that is!) fan.......I saw a reference to Jack Teagarden among the many messages on file and I can confirm that he played a Burbank model 6.......I met him when I was co-director of the National Jazz Federation of Great Britain......We had arranged for Tea to bring an all-star combo over here for a concert tour....it included Max Kaminsky Earl Hines Cozy Cole Jack Lesberg and during their tour I interrupted our own tour to visit Jack's Concert a couple of days after our Concert at the same venue in Bradford, England...My then wife, singer Ottilie Patterson joined me that day and we were shocked to find Jack and a couple of others had apparently caught an influenza epidemic and were very happy for us to join in and take some of the strain!......Jack lent me his model 6 and I was hooked within 10 minutes!........For many years I never found a Williams in England but a couple of years ago I did.......A Burbank model 4  and later a 2019 mpdel 6 from Tennessee (slide only Williams)......The mpdel 4 is fine...........
I attach a ohoto from September 27 1957 at London Airport with myself, Ottilie and
you-knpw-who....I treasure this picture..........I last saw Jack in New Orleans when we had a concert there and Jack had a week in a big club on Bourbon Street.
Greetings to all trombone lovers,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Chris Barber

LA  6    SOLD
===========
NOW BROKERING    A BURBANK  MODEL 8  --worked on by john duda   --on left coast

Spent a wonderful morning listening to Chris Amemiya play through my Williams'. Man, that guy sounds amazing on any horn he plays! We took a couple of videos, one of him playing the bass trumpet and the other playing my 6. Hopefully he posts them up when he has a chance!

placed    a ''bob''  8
located  another   8   !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, I've officially joined the club!  I'm now in possession of a Donelson Williams Model 4, having acquired it from Rob Skanse of the Army Band, who in turn acquired it from Rick Lillard of the Airmen of Note, its original owner (what a history!).   

I know that the Donelson horns don't fetch as much cash or love as the Burbank models, but this horn is one of the best, if not the best, trombone I've ever played in my life.  I feel like a cheating husband or something, but upon playing once I immediately agreed to buy it and haven't really played my Yamaha since. 

It's unlacquered, with no dings or scrapes, and the slide is in A1 shape.  This horn gets a beautiful sound with powerful low and middle overtones, and has a very even curve to the highs when I start to push it.  It's not as bright as my Yamaha but just as responsive and somehow MORE even  .  It's also the "cleanest" sounding unlacquered horn I've ever played. 

I've played some Model 6s of various eras and conditions and have never been particularly infatuated by them.  I always thought they were just not my style.  But this horn is my style.  It sounds like a much bigger horn but feels like a zippy pea-shooter (in all the best ways).  In short, it does everything that I want.  I'm going to grab a nice BAM case for it and play it non-stop for the foreseeable future. 

It's glorious!   

I'm glad you got that horn.  I have its twin, Rick and I bought them at the same time, except mine is almost new condition.  It's a great horn but the ,490 bore size is just too small for me.  Eventually I'll be offering it for sale...

congrats on the  4  !!!!!!!!!!!  they are  prized  even above  most  6s   -esp  by dixie  players  
  when you find a model 6 bach that fits it is the same  kind of  feeling  
the word from john noxon is that the latest  builds  from oregon are really   great
  -----
i brokered 2   model 4s    one at 4k  another at 4.5 k
  one from dick drewitz  who plays  w  woody  the actor
 ----------
john  sent me a  very early  one   with tiny bore and  bell  about size of a trumpet  in the original case  
  ------
this thread has become a ''resource''  !!!!!



Quote from: TromboneMonkey on Sep 12, 2013, 05:28AMWell, I've officially joined the club!  I'm now in possession of a Donelson Williams Model 4, having acquired it from Rob Skanse of the Army Band, who in turn acquired it from Rick Lillard of the Airmen of Note, its original owner (what a history!).   

I know that the Donelson horns don't fetch as much cash or love as the Burbank models, but this horn is one of the best, if not the best, trombone I've ever played in my life.  I feel like a cheating husband or something, but upon playing once I immediately agreed to buy it and haven't really played my Yamaha since. 

It's unlacquered, with no dings or scrapes, and the slide is in A1 shape.  This horn gets a beautiful sound with powerful low and middle overtones, and has a very even curve to the highs when I start to push it.  It's not as bright as my Yamaha but just as responsive and somehow MORE even  .  It's also the "cleanest" sounding unlacquered horn I've ever played. 

I've played some Model 6s of various eras and conditions and have never been particularly infatuated by them.  I always thought they were just not my style.  But this horn is my style.  It sounds like a much bigger horn but feels like a zippy pea-shooter (in all the best ways).  In short, it does everything that I want.  I'm going to grab a nice BAM case for it and play it non-stop for the foreseeable future. 

It's glorious!   

I'm hoping someone can help, I'm trying to value the trombone that I have. Its a Williams from LA. Has the fancy engraving on the bell and an arrowhead counterweight. The only other markings on it is on the connection wherr the slide connects it has an M with 6 S 1 underneath and on the slide handle it has 1733452. Any help would be great!

Thanks
Billy

patent  number ///
arrowhead =older
probably  m= model 6 
bell  7 1/2  ?????????????????????????
case /mouthpiece/accessories //history   ??????????????????????



Quote from: wmbryant on Nov 01, 2013, 12:29PMI'm hoping someone can help, I'm trying to value the trombone that I have. Its a Williams from LA. Has the fancy engraving on the bell and an arrowhead counterweight. The only other markings on it is on the connection wherr the slide connects it has an M with 6 S 1 underneath and on the slide handle it has 1733452. Any help would be great!

Thanks
Billy

7.5 inch bell. Don't know much of the history my parents got it from an older lady when I was a freshman in highschool. She said her husband bought it new from what she remembered but I don't know who he was. It looks like an original or at least original style case with green satin in it. The tuning is on the back curve and it is a friction fit. Sorry I don't know more it played great I just wasn't a great player so I stuck to string instruments where I belonged

Quote from: wmbryant on Nov 01, 2013, 12:29PMThe only other markings on it is on the connection wherr the slide connects it has an M with 6 S 1 underneath...Could that be "651" rather than "6 S 1"? I'd guess the "M" stands for "Medium".

Quoteon the slide handle it has 1733452.As DJ said, that is the patent number - though the correct number for the Williams patent is 1782452. It covers the curved brace.

john noxon     might have some ideas --- the arrowhead  dates it 

Quote from: wmbryant on Nov 01, 2013, 12:29PM The only other markings on it is on the connection wherr the slide connects it has an M with 6 S 1 underneath and on the slide handle it has 1733452.
John is right.
M = Medium. (I have 3 of them)
Which during the LA era, was .491 bore.
Probably 1938 - 1940 (after the Spike Wallace split, and before WWII).
6S1, should be the serial number - 651.
7.5 inch bell,... I probably have a brother to it.

Edit:
Yea, I have it's brother. Serial number 6XX
Pics:





T.

Could be 681....any estimates on value?  Had a couple people ask to buy it but I have no clue of the value. Took it to a horn shop they said it's in great condition just needs a thourough cleaning. I don't want to ask for too much

Best bet - slap it on e-bay.

3-4 years ago, it would have brought a lot more.

Now... not bringing as much.

I watched one sit for $500 (I was broke), and it took forever (several months)to sell.
Noah has one right now, I think it's been reduced to $2,200... and I don't think it's had a bite yet...
John N. had one for sale, I think he went down to $1K - which it didn't sell (he traded it off).

To be honest, the market sux right now for sellers (but it's great for buyers).

Slap it on e-bay, and it'll go for current market value. What ever that is.
All you need is two people who really want it...
I'd love to have it, but not in the market right now.. and I'd much rather have a model 6.

Good luck.

T.

There's a model 6 at Dillon's for $4000.00

the  later  4  have brought    4000    or  super fine  examples 
 the earlier ones usually much less
------
i brokered dick dreywitz[woody allen]   4    for 4k
  it was  incredibly beautiful 
dick bought a new   4
  the  4 buyer then sold it for an amazing 8k
------
that was then
this is  now

Quote from: Charlie bone on Nov 04, 2013, 10:47PMThere's a model 6 at Dillon's for $4000.00
And he's asking too much - IMHO.
If I was really looking, I'd bide my time and find one sooner or later for $1K less than that(I'm sure).

Quote from: dj kennedy on Nov 05, 2013, 01:26AM------
that was then
this is  now
^This. 

The price are all over the place now, depending on the feeding frenzy, and who has the dough, and who wants the horn (collector/player?), condition, slide action, original, overhauled....

I know the Williams I have, probably wouldn't bring my price I would want... so I ain't selling (wasn't planning to sell anyhow, so no big deal to me).

T.

maybe    a 1000  is  good   or too cheep  ??????
-------
 when did the model numbers  start  ///4 //6  //8  etc ?????????????????????????????
------
so pre model number  trombones  just have serial  #######

Quote from: dj kennedy on Nov 06, 2013, 04:26AM maybe    a 1000  is  good   or too cheep  ??????Noah has $2,200 on his (it's not sold though, and has been there a while)
It's TIS.
This one is TIB.
Who knows? 

Quote from: dj kennedy on Nov 06, 2013, 04:26AM when did the model numbers  start  ///4 //6  //8  etc ?????????????????????????????
After WWII (late 40's, early 50's)

Quote from: dj kennedy on Nov 06, 2013, 04:26AMso pre model number  trombones  just have serial  #######
Before model #'s, they had either an M or L for the most part.
That's just what I've picked up on, here and there.

John Noxon might could chime in.
He's the authority IMHO.

T.

Model numbers started with the Wallace Williams horns 0, 1, 2, and 3. The 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 came in the late 1930's and continued to now. The model 0 was about a .460 bore only have seen 1 of those the 1,2,3 went up to .485. The current bore sizes are model 4 = .490, model 5 is a model 4 with an "F" attachment. Any odd number has an "F" attachment. model 6 is .500 bore. model 8 is a .522 bore. The model 10 is a .565 bore.

CLARK  GAYTON   bought  two williams  recently  -an la  6 @  2600    -very solid  great projection  //and a  bob  34 @ 3500
  i got the  6  from  chris anemia    and  brokered the 34  out of   portland

Quote from: dj kennedy on Nov 21, 2013, 01:20AMchris anemia

roflmao 


... for those who don't know, Chris Amemiya is a great player in Seattle.

DJ, glad you were able to sell the LA 6.  I miss the horn but am happy with the 6 I have from Duda with an 8" bell.  Thanks Doug... been awhile. 

So in September 2013 I got a chance to try out a couple of Drew Arine's Williams horns. He has quite a collection.  Here is a video of me giving one of his Burbank 6's a test ride.  It is a really beautiful horn. 

There is also a video of me playing on his bass trumpet... I wish I knew some Wagnerian excerpts!  Had to settle for some jazz licks.

I think this link should work:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/111841830614801202959/albums/5922920579766635505

If not, let me know.

hey  chris  --amnesia  !!!!!!!!  ha ha 
  i  enjoyed  your 6   --now its being heard   in   bruce  springsteen  band!!!!!!!
 there is another  la  available  0==== out of   a  kenton band   member 
 
also a burbank  6  in  euro
  and a possible  near mint  medium  bore  in org case  etc 
meanwhile in  chi   -the  sheriff's   VELVET   3 proto bell//acmetrombones shires tube  slide build  is TOO MELLOW for him
   and i am working on  yet another  multi part  trade negotiation 




Quote from: chris.amemiya on Nov 21, 2013, 09:46PMDJ, glad you were able to sell the LA 6.  I miss the horn but am happy with the 6 I have from Duda with an 8" bell.  Thanks Doug... been awhile. 

So in September 2013 I got a chance to try out a couple of Drew Arine's Williams horns. He has quite a collection.  Here is a video of me giving one of his Burbank 6's a test ride.  It is a really beautiful horn. 

There is also a video of me playing on his bass trumpet... I wish I knew some Wagnerian excerpts!  Had to settle for some jazz licks.

I think this link should work:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/111841830614801202959/albums/5922920579766635505

If not, let me know.

VERY RARE  8   W  PROVENANCE   IN ON RADAR  !!!!!!!!!
--------------
clone  of  one used in la phil 
mint  in case w original  packing  materials
from earl

ROBERT MARSTELLAR---SPEC  MODEL 8  -in  mint-with  documentation

Quote from: dj kennedy on Dec 10, 2013, 11:00AMROBERT MARSTELLAR---SPEC  MODEL 8  -in  mint-with  documentationUnless it is Loren (Robert's son) who is selling it, please consider giving him first shot at it.

it was  made  up  for  a student  //later a professor  //since  retired
  the earl made it  as possibly near to playing character as  could be
------
interestingly  a  very unusual  34     with mega heavy g outers  came from same  area 
  so it could be likely  from  same conceptual  fabric  OR  KNOT  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Quote from: JohnL on Dec 10, 2013, 12:54PMUnless it is Loren (Robert's son) who is selling it, please consider giving him first shot at it.

Totally off topic 

I have been reading trought this topic for the whole week from the first page to the current... I had never even heared about Earl Williams but this is amazing!!!

Sorry for the interruption